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So, as I've said in various other posts around Dakka Dakka, I will be playing in a tournament on Saturday. I am trying to choose between 2 possible lists I might bring. List 1 has a Daemonkin CAD along with a CSM allied detachment with Cypher. List 2 is a pure KhorneKin army (a Blood Host detachment).
List 1:
List 2:
The main thing I want to know is which of those two lists is stronger. We will be using ITC missions in the tournament (I've heard that means Maelstrom will be part of it). I don't have a whole lot more models than those listed, so modification of the lists may be difficult. Specific questions I had are:
1: If I go with the first list, what powers should I take on the Prince? Should I have him be aligned with Nurgle or Slaanesh instead?
2: In the second list, should I in fact take an Axe of Khorne on the Lord, or should I take Goredrinker instead? I would consider using the Thirster axe, but I don't have an extra Thirster model handy at the moment. I suppose in a pinch I might be able to proxy a Daemon Prince, since he isn't much smaller than one of the old metal Thirsters.
3: Is Phlegm Bombardment the best thing to take on a Soul Grinder?

Something that pops out to me with the second list: why the extra men with the bloodletters, cultists, and marines?

I like the idea of Allying in CSM...but it wouldn't be for a Demon Prince of Tzeentch... it would be for Belakor.

= Guaranteed invisibility for your bloodthirster

If you take a CAD you don't need the raptor tax to get a heldrake.

BUT personally I like the bloodhost much much more for the +1 tithe point and everyone in the bloodhost getting a second result on the table. Without it I feel like I am giving up a free feel no pain or +1 attack for almost my whole army.

For a strategy with the possessed, try running them BEHIND the rhino instead of inside of it...that way when it pops they can still move/assault right away. (I also like screening my posessed with dogs and taking no rhino since they have fleet they move pretty quickly)

@andysonic1: The extra men in the CSM squad enable me to take 2 meltaguns instead of just 1. As for the others, I had points left over, so I fleshed out the squads a little bit to increase their survivability.

@chaosmarauder: I like Be'lakor, and thanks very much for the suggestion, but I don't have the model (although I could proxy) or the dataslate. The Prince is just something I thought of as an HQ; I was actually trying to find the best way to field Cypher other than his formation. As for the CAD, I am using raptors because why not, it is what I have the models for. In a perfect world, where I have lots of money to spend on models, I would use something better, like a maulerfiend, but I don't own the models yet (I'm kinda having to make do with what I currently have right now due to probably already blowing my hobby budget for the year!). My only other choice would be (from the models I own) a Possessed squad, a Helbrute or a Skull Cannon. Would any of these improve the first list if I scrapped the second Raptor squad?

I would pay the couple bucks for belakor dataslate and trade raptors for posessed to make a blood host

Keep skull cannon around for summoning

I played around with the first list on Battlescribe to see how I could fit in Be'lakor, and I came up with this:
Combined Arms Detachment (Khorne Daemonkin)
HQ:
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
Troops:
Chaos Space Marines: 2x extra men, 2x Meltagun, Power Axe for Champion, Chaos Rhino
Bloodletters: Bloodreaper upgrade, Banner of Blood (note: only 8 men now)
Fast Attack:
Heldrake: Baleflamer
Raptors: 2x Meltagun, Power Sword for Champion
Heavy Support:
Soul Grinder: Phlegm Bombardment
Helbrute: Multi-melta, Power Fist w/Combi-bolter
Allied Detachment (Chaos Space Marines)
No Force Org slot:
Cypher
HQ:
Be'lakor, the Dark Master
Troops:
Chaos Cultists: Flamer
Chaos Cultists: 8x Autogun, Heavy Stubber, Shotgun for Champion
I looked into making a Blood Host, but decided that it wouldn't really work all that well (although I could take the Heldrake in the CSM allied detachment...). Plus, I want ObSec on my troops! The question is, is this list better than my second list from my original post?

For 190 pts Cypher is way overcosted for what you get out of him...basically hit and run which isnt what kdk wants to do.

Trade him for posessed to make a blood host detachment and you still have 40pts to play around with.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Use some of those pts to put a heavy flamer on the brute to be better against hordes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or trade the brute for more troops.

Okay, I've taken your advice and completely reworked the Daemonkin part of the army into a Blood Host detachment. So here is the re-revamped List 1:
Blood Host Detachment:
Slaughtercult:
Chaos Lord: Axe of Khorne, Bolt Pistol, Sigil of Corruption, Melta Bombs
Possessed: Chaos Rhino
Chaos Cultists: 2 extra men, Flamer
Bloodletters: Bloodreaper upgrade
Chaos Space Marines: 2 extra men, 2x Meltagun, Power Maul for Champion, Chaos Rhino
Lord of Slaughter:
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage
War Engines:
Soul Grinder: Phlegm Bombardment
Helbrute: Multi-melta, Power Fist w/Heavy Flamer
Allied Detachment: Chaos Space Marines
HQ:
Be'lakor
Troops:
Chaos Cultists: 8x Autogun, Heavy Stubber, Shotgun for Champion
Fast Attack:
Heldrake: Baleflamer
Main problem I see with this list is lack of anti-tank. The Raptors were doing part of that job before, but I can't take them in a Blood Host without taking 2 squads of them, plus a squad of Warp Talons. This is too pricey to also fit in Be'lakor. I suppose I could take them instead of the Heldrake, but that sounds like a flawed plan . I went with boyz before toyz, which is why I took cultists in the Slaughtercult instead of putting more expensive upgrades/relics on the Lord/Bloodletters/CSM (cultists' toys are fairly cheap). Hopefully I can generate enough blood tithe with this list to stay in the game. I sure would have liked to find a place for Cypher, but you (chaosmarauder) made a good point about him not really fitting in with the Daemonkin MO. I may relegate him to casual/fluffy games.

I don't know about the whole Be'lakor thing. I know he's a sick unit who beats in face but IMO it's better in this list to have the max two units of cultists for the bloodtithe and all of your units from the codex that benefits from the buffs and summons.

I would do a Bloodhost detachment spamming Soul Grinders and 2 Maulerfiends.

TheFivth wrote:I don't know about the whole Be'lakor thing. I know he's a sick unit who beats in face but IMO it's better in this list to have the max two units of cultists for the bloodtithe and all of your units from the codex that benefits from the buffs and summons.

I ran the list I posted above (the most recent iteration) and got my butt kicked in all 3 games. Bad matchups combined with very stupid moves on my part and some insanely good luck for my opponents just made for a terrible day of gaming. Be'lakor was a zero in both of the last two games, as he died on turn 1 in both of them. I don't think I'm gonna try him again; makes me glad the model was borrowed and I didn't spend the money myself.

KhorneontheCobb wrote:I would do a Bloodhost detachment spamming Soul Grinders and 2 Maulerfiends.

I'd love to, but I don't have any Maulerfiends and I only have 1 Soul Grinder. Eventually I will try something like this, but it will not likely be soon unless I have some very significant financial windfall.