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On the first glance, they both look fairly similar. T3 4+ dudes with 3 Specials, Plasma or Anti-Tank. Both have some shooty Walkers and sketchy melee units. When you factor in Cult, things get a bit different with T7 dudes.

Still, what reason is there to play AdMech over IG? Seems like IG is very similar but more fleshed out, gets more dudes, transports and cheap AV14 and more of anything really.

Feel free to correct me though

 Trade_Prince wrote:
On the first glance, they both look fairly similar. T3 4+ dudes with 3 Specials, Plasma or Anti-Tank. Both have some shooty Walkers and sketchy melee units. When you factor in Cult, things get a bit different with T7 dudes.

Still, what reason is there to play AdMech over IG? Seems like IG is very similar but more fleshed out, gets more dudes, transports and cheap AV14 and more of anything really.

Feel free to correct me though

In pure power/game-design terms?

AdMech infantry are actually worth something. AdMech/Skitarii abilities, such as Canticles and Doctrina Imperatives are astoundingly powerful while IG orders are much less useful (rely on Ld tests with units that have low Ld, can't be used on vehicles, etc), have better costed units and options/upgrades, and have an array of powerful formations.

In terms of more general differences, IG are slower, rely much more on vehicles and heavy armor, and in general rely a whole lot more on both long range weapons and blast weapons. AdMech firepower is generally more short ranged, the army is more mobile, they have some decent CC capabilities, ironically rely less on vehicles and have generally less well armored tanks.

If you want to play techno-wizards with steampunky contraptions, play AdMech. If you want massed formations of tanks or infantry, and long range heavy weapons, play IG.


That said, I think AdMech is...incomplete. It's one army spread over two or three books (depening on how you see them), that lacks rather obvious things like dedicated transports and the like.

1) The look & fluff. I hate the "We so realistic in an over-the-top Sci-fi universe" look. If 40K was reality, guardmen would be THE worst army. "They overpower through number", that's just bs, you can only fit so many guardsmen in a given surface, they wouldn't stand a fething chance. Their technology could just as well literally be gak compared to what other races have. Ad mech on the other hand have the best tech in the imperium and I love their fluff and how they're basicly trying to become Necrons.

2) They play differently. The only way to play IG right now is to spam vehicles. Ad mech can't do that because they seriously lack vehicles (there's 3 vehicles spread across 2 codices and two are basicly the same but with another loadout and in another slot).

3) Ad mech have totally different weapons compared to Guard. As I've said, most guard players bring a lot of vehicles because lasguns just suck and you definitely don't have that problem with Ad mech.

4) The skitarii part of Ad mech actually has some pretty amazing melee units. I've run them as a melee force to great succes.

5) I'd say Skitarii can be run as a low bodycount army, while that really isn't the case with Guard unless you're doing vehicle spam.

Fluff concerns me less, seeing as I convert stuff to fit my own design. This purely about gameplay.

I hear you on the incompleteness. Even with all three books taken together, it still feels kind of half baked.
My aim was it to play an Imprial Heavy Metal army (no, no Necron), so you would think that AdMech would deliver as it would in HH. But sadly, IG seems to bring heavier AV, more resilience and survivability to the board. Hence why I am saying that I see no reason to play AdMech over IG.

Three books? I only know two. Could someone please clarify what the three books are?

The skittari one, the ad mecha one and the knight codex.

Indeed.

Anyway, the more I think about it, the more do I feel that the Skits are the main offenders. I like Cult, they feel solid and have no need for AV for the most part.
Skits are the ones needing it and not having it. Hence I feel that IG with Cult feels waaaaaay more like AdMech than Skits and Cult.

Oh, I did not realise the Knights were considered part of AdMech!

DaPino wrote:
1) The look & fluff. I hate the "We so realistic in an over-the-top Sci-fi universe" look. If 40K was reality, guardmen would be THE worst army. "They overpower through number", that's just bs, you can only fit so many guardsmen in a given surface, they wouldn't stand a fething chance. Their technology could just as well literally be gak compared to what other races have. Ad mech on the other hand have the best tech in the imperium and I love their fluff and how they're basicly trying to become Necrons.

But there are untold *trillions* of them And each chapter of marines has a lousy thousand.

Incidentally, one thing that may make a difference: if it's a pickup type scene... there are proportionately a lot more unhappy IG players than AdMech players And that's not without reason. There aren't many AdMech players screaming that their codex is outdated and outclassed.

From a game model perspective, most IG forces are composed of a lot of models. They are, on the GW scale, relatively less expensive, but you still have to assemble and paint them. If you care about such things, many IG models are dated, compared with AdMech, which have all new, shiny plastic. Also if you care about things, I think almost every hero for IG other than Nork Deddog is in finecast or metal. Not that AdMech has much in the way of any type of HQs, but you won't be stuck with fidgeting with finecast.

 Elric of Grans wrote:
Oh, I did not realise the Knights were considered part of AdMech!

They are not. But they are closer to them than anyone else and they are included in the AdMech Formation.

AdMech armor is much lighter, AdMech melee is much stronger, numbers are lighter, AdMech is more mobile but has no transports.

the_scotsman wrote:
AdMech armor is much lighter, AdMech melee is much stronger, numbers are lighter, AdMech is more mobile but has no transports.

So basically useless

 Elric of Grans wrote:
Three books? I only know two. Could someone please clarify what the three books are?

Alternatively, the Cult one, the Skitarii one, and the unpublished one that fills in all the missing gaps in the other two and makes the army playable without deploying in 'free stuff' formation.

10 skitarri with 3 plasma using the +1bs doctrine cause 9.167 unsaved/unsavable wounds against a unit of marines (not inc cover or invuls).
10 Vets with 3 plasma within rapid fire range cause 4.370 unsaved/unsavable wounds against a unit of marines (not inc cover or invuls).
The reason I have included doctrines and not orders is because orders require another unit and need to be passed, doctrines automatically occur every turn. I picked the least crazy bs doctrine to make the results fairer.
Same units against:
Ork boyz: Skitarri - 15, Vets - 6.444
Spawn: Skitarri - 12.083, Vets - 4.889
Centurions: Skitarri - 7.222, Vets - 3.593
Wraithknight (after fnp): Skitarri - 2.963, Vets - 0.889

These are all within 12". Between 12-18" the guardsmens firepower halves whilst the skitarri stay the same. Between 18-24" the skitarri can't shoot whilst the guardsmen halve the above results.
The skitarri can also charge due to relentless (and the fact that their weapons are assault weapons anyway) and give the oppositions unit -1T.
The Vets can slightly increase some of the above results with FRFSRF, but then lose the chance for ignores cover order (for when you factor in cover saves) whilst the skitarri get -1 cover to the opponents unit with the use of an omnispex. Skitarri can increase the above with even better bs doctrines.
I wouldn't be thinking 'what's the point in taking skitarri when you can have vets', I'd be thinking 'what's the point in taking vets when you can take skitarri'.

Ok, but Vets get transports and you have armoured vehicles up.the wazoo. Sure, not every army needs transports or tanks, but I feel that AdMech is one that does. All they needed was adding something akin to.the Triaros and Krios tank, skipped the Donkeytank, and everythjng would have been golden.
Instead, they filled it with obscure and borderline useless choices. I mean, why would you ever run Sicarians? IG and Cult feels more like AdMech with all the tanks. Skitarii are a useless pile of turds unless you stick them in Flesh Tearers Pods. I dislike playing anything SM related, so that one is out.

Actually Trade_Prince you run Sicarians because Infiltrators with Taser Goads are one of the best units in the codex. You forget that the Admech makes everything, so even fluff wise it is reasonable to say that they make the Rhino, they take the Rhino. They make the Drop Pod, they take the Drop Pod. They make the Chimera, they take the Chimera once the new Guard dex drops. I think putting Skitarii in Chimeras will be a decent option once the new Guard dex finally drops. I know I will be buying a couple and painting them in Admech colors just for that purpose.

 ultimentra wrote:
Actually Trade_Prince you run Sicarians because Infiltrators with Taser Goads are one of the best units in the codex. You forget that the Admech makes everything, so even fluff wise it is reasonable to say that they make the Rhino, they take the Rhino. They make the Drop Pod, they take the Drop Pod. They make the Chimera, they take the Chimera once the new Guard dex drops. I think putting Skitarii in Chimeras will be a decent option once the new Guard dex finally drops. I know I will be buying a couple and painting them in Admech colors just for that purpose.

Admech are probably sticklers for the bureaucracy of equipment logistics and allocation so they refuse to violate their integrity by utilizing space marine equipment without going through the proper bureaucratic channels (allies). No self respecting person would use a salad fork to eat their spaghetti so why would a Skitarri use an Astartes grav gun? This is also why the Space Wolves do not have Grav weapons because they failed to fill out the proper requisition forms in triplicate without getting wolf drool and fur on the paperwork.