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Hi, just a quick reach out on this (for clarification: this is regarding the special ability called "intercept" in the eldar codex NOT the same named ability in the BRB!)

In the eldar codex: It says this is an attack made at the end of the movement phase. The word "shooting" does not appear. Nor does it use the BS of the model to resolve.. In the BRB under jinking it says "when the target of a shooting attack, a model may opt to jink".

So.

Surely you cannot jink the haywire grenades that swooping hawks hit with if they are using "intercept" but am I correct?

This is hard, as normally everything that can hit fliers is some sort of shooting. What kind of profile does it have? Does it use range in any form? In reality wise, a grenade thrown would be able to jink "swerve" out of the way of a grenade, however I get we are necessarily speaking reality in a toy soldiers game. That's very very hard. I guess you could always roll. 1-3 yes 4-6 no

It is most decidedly not a shooting attack. RAW, no jink.

I think the fluff is, the swooping hawks are fliers too and are able to fly up to the arial vehicle and plant their grenades on the hull of the flier. There have been pictures of the swooping hawks from as far back as the rogue trader days showing them hovering high in the stratosphere, just floating about.

It doesn't use range they just have to move over the model to do it. 4+ means they were successful, which is not their BS. They can still shoot as normal in the shooting phase or even throw another haywire grenade

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
This is hard, as normally everything that can hit fliers is some sort of shooting. What kind of profile does it have? Does it use range in any form? In reality wise, a grenade thrown would be able to jink "swerve" out of the way of a grenade, however I get we are necessarily speaking reality in a toy soldiers game. That's very very hard. I guess you could always roll. 1-3 yes 4-6 no

Indeed, it's only hard if you try to apply some measure of either reality or subjective imagination to the situation.

In this case it's very clearly not described as a shooting attack, though, so it's pretty straightforward.

Swooping Hawks like to fly up and slap grenades directly onto flyers. In the old Apoc formation where they first did this they had to take an initiative test or be splatted like a bird in a plane engine.

 Mr. Shine wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
This is hard, as normally everything that can hit fliers is some sort of shooting. What kind of profile does it have? Does it use range in any form? In reality wise, a grenade thrown would be able to jink "swerve" out of the way of a grenade, however I get we are necessarily speaking reality in a toy soldiers game. That's very very hard. I guess you could always roll. 1-3 yes 4-6 no

Indeed, it's only hard if you try to apply some measure of either reality or subjective imagination to the situation.

In this case it's very clearly not described as a shooting attack, though, so it's pretty straightforward.

The attack is not described as a shooting attack, nor does it say that you target the flyer. So no there is no linking for the attack (I suspect that it was worded this way for this reason.)

You have to target something to do any damage to it.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
You have to target something to do any damage to it.

You do not. Units that a blast scatters on to are not targeted. Neither is a unit that is between a flamer wielded and his actual target, but in both cases you can still damage them.

In addition, Jink specifies that it may only be declared when you are targeted for a shooting attack, which Intercept is not.

Meh, my gaming group house rules this. If I played a pick up game and the opponent tried this? Dueces. You're already playing eldar. You really need to be that strict of your over powerness? Thanks gg waac tfg

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
You have to target something to do any damage to it.

Even if this was the case jink says "target of a shooting attack" which this ability is not.

Yes you are targeted, but not by a shooting attack.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Meh, my gaming group house rules this. If I played a pick up game and the opponent tried this? Dueces. You're already playing eldar. You really need to be that strict of your over powerness? Thanks gg waac tfg

Tried what? using his unit's abilities?

It sounds relatively close to a bombing run. Actually it sounds EXACTLY like a bombing run. If you could please post the entire rule.

Do you use this ability any turn? is their a limit, Im not familiar with them because I pretty much don't play Eldar anymore unless im friends with the player because otherwise it turns into the Eldar player gloating that he managed to table the Orks in 2-4 turns and then my PTSD induced anger wanting to pick up said eldar player and throw them through a plate glass window

It's pretty cut and dry, there rule doesn't say it's a shooting attack, just says if they end there move going over a flyer or FMC they make a attack that hits in a 4+ that's S4 Ap4 with the haywire special rule, flyers are hit in there side armour.
No were does it say they make a shooting attack, and jink states that you can only jink if your the target of a shooting attack.
The fact that people here are saying they house rule it, or that if someone did that they would be upset is just plain dumb, it's there units rule, if people are going to be sour about every rule then don't bother playing them. Not to mention it's pretty easy to avoid the Hawks, if you left your flyer open to get hit like that then it's your own fault

Honestly, it seems closer to a vector strike than a bombing run. (Although still not a shooting attack.)

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Meh, my gaming group house rules this. If I played a pick up game and the opponent tried this? Dueces. You're already playing eldar. You really need to be that strict of your over powerness? Thanks gg waac tfg

Well, I guess it's nice to point out to your oppenent that you're a waac tfg, but really, wouldn't the better solution to just try and be more reasonable and nice?

 Bookwrack wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Meh, my gaming group house rules this. If I played a pick up game and the opponent tried this? Dueces. You're already playing eldar. You really need to be that strict of your over powerness? Thanks gg waac tfg

Well, I guess it's nice to point out to your oppenent that you're a waac tfg, but really, wouldn't the better solution to just try and be more reasonable and nice?

I'm sorry I forgot this is dakka where I need to make things.. 3rd? Grade level. (I hope that's low enough) he would be the waac tfg, little dude

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Meh, my gaming group house rules this. If I played a pick up game and the opponent tried this? Dueces. You're already playing eldar. You really need to be that strict of your over powerness? Thanks gg waac tfg

Guffawed admission of house rules on a rules-focused forum? Check.
Utilization of absent minded slang? Check.
Real world prejudice against a science fiction species? Check.
Is offended by using a units rules as intended? Check.
Needless offensive acronyms? Check.

My my. I think you're looking for the Magic the Gathering forums friend.

Everyone,
May I remind you of the little yellow triangles of friendship, as this forum has a way to deal with inflammatory posts.

Guys, please keep in mind that Rule Number One is Be Polite. This includes not making retaliatory posts. Thanks!

Since the attack takes place in the movement phase, it is more of a Vector Strike with the Haywire rule. I would call No Jink on that. Same as when a Helldrake Vector Strikes another flyer.

Here's a question: does it Ignore Cover?

I thought of a situation you could theoretically Jink. If a I take my turn, and my Venom arrives from Reserve, and some Guardians on a Quad Gun fire at me with Interceptor, and I Jink, I will have the cover save until the beginning of my next turn. So if the Eldar player Intercepts the Venom with some Hawks in his next turn, I can still use the 4+ cover save, yeah?

Yeah, this question is dealing with the ability to elect to Jink, so in that case if there is a pre-existing cover save from a separate, prior election to Jink then you may take any cover saves ordinarily allowed.

Off the top of my head I'm not sure whether the allowance to take cover saves applies only to shooting attacks however, or whether it's rather that cover saves are specifically not allowed to be taken from close combat attacks. Or both.

 Mr. Shine wrote:
Off the top of my head I'm not sure whether the allowance to take cover saves applies only to shooting attacks however, or whether it's rather that cover saves are specifically not allowed to be taken from close combat attacks. Or both.

You specifically cannot take cover saves against close combat attacks (rulebook, page 52, top right).
Since Intercept isn't defined as a close combat attack (just like it's not defined as a shooting attack), that shouldn't apply.

If a model had a 'static' cover save (Stealth / Shrouded etc.), they would be able to use it against Intercept.

Having a quick read through it seems cover saves are introduced and generally phrased in the context of shooting attacks but yeah, it's not explicitly stated only against shooting attacks.

Against non-'static' cover saves though (i.e. those granted by the vehicle being obscured) it seems they must be shooting attacks, however.

It is a good question, re: cover saves. (Could also apply if the flier is a "warlock wraithfighter" -> and had cast conceal last turn, or if it is a crimson hunter as part of the crimson hunter formation with it'd 4+ cover) My gut feeling is that the swooping hawks intercept is effectively a "special attack" and not shooting, and that cover saves would not apply.

But tbh I wouldn't stress it and if my opponent was adamant I would let it lie.

What this does bring to mind is the potency of 3 x 6 (inv exarch) swooping hawks as an aspect formation. Not only is it sub 330 pts, it is also possible to effectively run all your anti air and all your anti armour and all your anti horde with that points cost. You also can force utter board control over opponents fliers.

Brilliant for people taking eldar allies.

Brilliant for low point games (say 750-1000 pts)

ConanMan wrote:
It is a good question, re: cover saves. (Could also apply if the flier is a "warlock wraithfighter" -> and had cast conceal last turn, or if it is a crimson hunter as part of the crimson hunter formation with it'd 4+ cover) My gut feeling is that the swooping hawks intercept is effectively a "special attack" and not shooting, and that cover saves would not apply.

But tbh I wouldn't stress it and if my opponent was adamant I would let it lie.

What this does bring to mind is the potency of 3 x 6 (inv exarch) swooping hawks as an aspect formation. Not only is it sub 330 pts, it is also possible to effectively run all your anti air and all your anti armour and all your anti horde with that points cost. You also can force itter board control over opponents fliers.

Brilliant for people taking eldar allies.

Brilliant for low point games (say 750-1000 pts)

Except there is nothing denying cover saves. Melee attacks ignore cover because the rules specifically say they do. Since it is not a shooting attack, and does not require LoS, any cover based off of LoS would not work. Any inherent cover save (such as Stealth) would still apply. The only way you would be able to have a cover save from Jink, is as jimsolo pointed out, the flyer was targeted via Interceptor.