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Hello, I was playing a game of 40k the other day and the following two issues came up:

1) My opponent claimed that a flyer with blast weapons can target swooping FMCs regularly, since the ruling on the FMCs says that they can only be hit by Snap Shots, unless the weapon has Skyfire, a rule that all flyers can use. So does this mean that swooping FMCs can be hit by Skyfire blasts, even though that vehicle flyers cannot, since their ruling specifically states that they cannot be hit by blasts?

2) Again, my opponent claimed that a blast without Skyfire can hit a swooping FMC if it scatters on top of it while targeting another nearby unit. We searched the ruling and there was nothing that did not allow that to happen.

So, could you please tell me, have I missed an FAQ that states that swooping FMCs cannot be hit by blasts or this is just a rule break? Maybe a RAW - RAI issue?

Anyway, I can accept a flyer hitting swooping FMCs with blast weapons, since I guess rockets and stuff could explode near the FMC or something. But the non-skyfire blast scattering on top of an FMC is just unacceptable. It's like claiming I can hit a bird with a grenade that ricochets off a wall!

Thanks in advance!

fokospatharios wrote:
1) My opponent claimed that a flyer with blast weapons can target swooping FMCs regularly, since the ruling on the FMCs says that they can only be hit by Snap Shots, unless the weapon has Skyfire, a rule that all flyers can use. So does this mean that swooping FMCs can be hit by Skyfire blasts, even though that vehicle flyers cannot, since their ruling specifically states that they cannot be hit by blasts?

Yes. For some reason Flyers have an extra line in their Hard to Hit rule that FMC's do not, meaning they can be shot at by blasts (and template weapons, if ones with skyfire exist).

fokospatharios wrote:
2) Again, my opponent claimed that a blast without Skyfire can hit a swooping FMC if it scatters on top of it while targeting another nearby unit. We searched the ruling and there was nothing that did not allow that to happen.

Again, correct. It doesn't even have to scatter - he can target a Gaunt unit that is standing within a few inches of a Flyrant and hit both. Template weapons are trickier, as they have to hit as many models in the target unit as possible (meaning it's harder to 'clip' other units).

fokospatharios wrote:
So, could you please tell me, have I missed an FAQ that states that swooping FMCs cannot be hit by blasts or this is just a rule break? Maybe a RAW - RAI issue?

Anyway, I can accept a flyer hitting swooping FMCs with blast weapons, since I guess rockets and stuff could explode near the FMC or something. But the non-skyfire blast scattering on top of an FMC is just unacceptable. It's like claiming I can hit a bird with a grenade that ricochets off a wall!

Yeah, it's a bit of a jarring disparity, but we'll likely never know (until 8th edition) whether it was intentional or accidental. No FAQ for it as yet (don't hold your breath either).

 Quanar wrote:

fokospatharios wrote:
1) My opponent claimed that a flyer with blast weapons can target swooping FMCs regularly, since the ruling on the FMCs says that they can only be hit by Snap Shots, unless the weapon has Skyfire, a rule that all flyers can use. So does this mean that swooping FMCs can be hit by Skyfire blasts, even though that vehicle flyers cannot, since their ruling specifically states that they cannot be hit by blasts?

Yes. For some reason Flyers have an extra line in their Hard to Hit rule that FMC's do not, meaning they can be shot at by blasts (and template weapons, if ones with skyfire exist).

It is easy to have blast weapons and template weapons, or several, that have Skyfire.

The Mysterious Objective, Skyfire Nexus, can give Skyfire to any unit that controls that objective.

Thanks guys. I guess it's one of those rules that just won't make any sense...

fokospatharios wrote:
Thanks guys. I guess it's one of those rules that just won't make any sense...

Considering most of the rules do not make any real world sense (This is to be expected as the game is an abstraction) this one fits in with all the others.

 Quanar wrote:
Yes. For some reason Flyers have an extra line in their Hard to Hit rule that FMC's do not, meaning they can be shot at by blasts (and template weapons, if ones with skyfire exist).

It's not even a question of being shot at, it's being HIT by them. Just not being shot at would allow Scattering Blasts to hit them, just like a Frag Missile scattering off of 'gaunts and hitting a Flyrant. Blasts and Templates aren't even allowed to HIT Zooming Flyers (unless it is a Nova Psyker Power).

Either this is like 6th Edition and the writers/editors flubbed the copy and paste again, or it is deliberately set up as most FMCs can get Cover off of Buildings while most Zoomers cannot. Take your pick as to the reason.

 Quanar wrote:
Again, correct. It doesn't even have to scatter - he can target a Gaunt unit that is standing within a few inches of a Flyrant and hit both..

This is a bit of a quirky issue. If he is targeting the Gaunt, he cannot be using Skyfire, therefore the blast would not clip the Flyrant. However, I dont see anything that stops the blast from targeting the Flyrant and clipping the Gaunt.

Fragile wrote:
This is a bit of a quirky issue. If he is targeting the Gaunt, he cannot be using Skyfire, therefore the blast would not clip the Flyrant. However, I dont see anything that stops the blast from targeting the Flyrant and clipping the Gaunt.

The Hard to Hit rule only comes into play for FMC if they are the targeted unit - You can quite happily target the Gaunt unit without Skyfire, and the fact that you can place the blast marker so that it hits other units (with the center hole over the Gaunt unit) doesn't change just because that second unit happens to be a FMC. Just like you can target a unit standing next to a bike unit, having a few bikes under the marker doesn't count as "targeting" them, so they can't Jink.

@Charistoph, yes, you're quite right, I should have worded it differently.

 Quanar wrote:

fokospatharios wrote:
1) My opponent claimed that a flyer with blast weapons can target swooping FMCs regularly, since the ruling on the FMCs says that they can only be hit by Snap Shots, unless the weapon has Skyfire, a rule that all flyers can use. So does this mean that swooping FMCs can be hit by Skyfire blasts, even though that vehicle flyers cannot, since their ruling specifically states that they cannot be hit by blasts?

Yes. For some reason Flyers have an extra line in their Hard to Hit rule that FMC's do not, meaning they can be shot at by blasts (and template weapons, if ones with skyfire exist)

OMG...new use for Dark Talon!!! SHooting Hive Tyrants down!!