Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Im looking for a good tank hunter + delivery system for my chapter master and 5 hammenators.

The rest of my army looks somewhat like this:

3x10 man tac squads w flamers in rhinos
2x Tri-Las Predators
Contemptor Mortis w Kheres

So what would be better for this army? A Spartan with armoured ceramite or a ROC Storm Eagle with a Democles Command Rhino for reserve +1?

Iv never faced nor never fielded ether, so I really dont know what the meta and cheese factor would be around these two in the present state of the game.

FYI, a ROC pattern SE is a regular SE with a reduced transport capacity, but has 4 heavy twin linked krak missiles launcher instead of the regular SE launcher, 2 twin linked lascannons, and +1 BS to ground targets. Costs as much as a Spartan too.

Thanks

Spartan.

The Rocs nice and I use it a bit, but you don't want to have stuff in it you want to get out in a hurry. Generally just stay zooming as a gunship. If there's a spare slot and points, maybe a techmarine to keep it afloat or a small scout squad if it's still there at the end of the game.

The Spartans really durable, puts out a lot of Lascannon shots and is reliable. Plus if your Rocs wrecked while zooming, your expensive guys aren't just gonna walk out like they would from a spartan

Plus you've got a contemporary mortis that can put a few shots in the air already. But you are looking to have a lot of lascannons though.

 rahxephon wrote:
Spartan.

The Rocs nice and I use it a bit, but you don't want to have stuff in it you want to get out in a hurry. Generally just stay zooming as a gunship. If there's a spare slot and points, maybe a techmarine to keep it afloat or a small scout squad if it's still there at the end of the game.

The Spartans really durable, puts out a lot of Lascannon shots and is reliable. Plus if your Rocs wrecked while zooming, your expensive guys aren't just gonna walk out like they would from a spartan

Plus you've got a contemporary mortis that can put a few shots in the air already. But you are looking to have a lot of lascannons though.

Heres the way I see it, and please correct me if im wrong.
I'll have 460 points worth of infantry plus the points for the transport in one unit. 775 points, which is what spartan loaded up will cost, will severely limit my damage output on other parts of the table because the it will lack the maneuverability to react to an ongoing situation, while if they were in a Storm Eagle the aircraft could drop off the troops and then maneuver quickly and provide firepower downrange where ever it is needed. Granted, I haven't played a game since 3rd edition so my knowledge of the rules is a little (a lot) rusty, but I see the ROC being a more viable alternative to the Spartan.
When it comes to aesthetics tho, Spartan hands down looks better, and I really want you to tell me that Im wrong when it comes to the Roc. SM aircraft have always looked terrible, except for maybe the xyphon.

Edit: I would also assume the Roc would be a more reliable method of delivering that points heavy unit than a Spartan due to all the Haywire and D weapons being thrown about?

Don't forget the tl multimelta too! 4 krak missiles, 2 tl lascannons and a tl mm a turn with the ability to fire at 2 different targets is excellent firepower. You are talking about the equivalent of 2 mobile flying devestator squads with bs5 and half their weapons being tl... and the ability to transport a unit. I'd rate that higher than the Spartans 4 tl lascannons.
The one thing the spartan has, is that it can start on the board without the need of a landing pad.
I agree it'd be better as a pure gunship though.

From a fire-support standpoint, I'd go with the Roc Pattern SE.

I see the Spartan as an assault vehicle, it has guns, but its potential is in delivering a large unit into the fray.

You're not fielding an assault unit, so to me the Roc SE complements your army better, combined with the Damocles rhino you have a pretty reliable chance of bringing it in when you want it.

Also, take a look at the Legacies of Glory in Imperial Armour, Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes as there may be something that will mesh well with the Roc SE.

Good luck.

 phoenix darkus wrote:
From a fire-support standpoint, I'd go with the Roc Pattern SE.

I see the Spartan as an assault vehicle, it has guns, but its potential is in delivering a large unit into the fray.

You're not fielding an assault unit, so to me the Roc SE complements your army better, combined with the Damocles rhino you have a pretty reliable chance of bringing it in when you want it.

Also, take a look at the Legacies of Glory in Imperial Armour, Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes as there may be something that will mesh well with the Roc SE.

Good luck.

A chapter master + 5 Thunder Hammer Terminators are not an assault unit?

Don't you have to use minotaurs chapter tactics to use a ROC?

My bad, didn't catch the first line.

Still definitely would stick with the Roc SE considering it's a smaller unit.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Don't you have to use minotaurs chapter tactics to use a ROC?

No, FW clarified all chapters have it available to them, but in any case I am playing Minotaurs here.

 AveImperator wrote:

 phoenix darkus wrote:
From a fire-support standpoint, I'd go with the Roc Pattern SE.

I see the Spartan as an assault vehicle, it has guns, but its potential is in delivering a large unit into the fray.

You're not fielding an assault unit, so to me the Roc SE complements your army better, combined with the Damocles rhino you have a pretty reliable chance of bringing it in when you want it.

Also, take a look at the Legacies of Glory in Imperial Armour, Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes as there may be something that will mesh well with the Roc SE.

Good luck.

A chapter master + 5 Thunder Hammer Terminators are not an assault unit?

But not really one that needs the Spartan. Any of the Landraiders can about do the job for them, as can teleport.

The biggest issue of the spartan is that it is no longer the big kid on the block.

With titans, GMCs and D weapons becoming more common, the spartan is not all that survivable when put up against the newer weapons.

Take the comparison of the wraithknight for example.
Same points value, but with 2 ranged D weapons and 5 str 10 attacks with stomp. Do you expect your spartan to be able to do its job against this?
Most of the time unfortunately the answer will be no, it won't.

I would take a Spartan any day.

D weapons are certainly "more common," in the sense that some but not many opponents use them. It's benefits apply equally well against a Storm Eagle in hover mode.

The Spartan is going to be able to soak up much more common plasma fire, so long as you take ceramite, and reliably deliver troops anywhere on the battlefield. It lacks the downsides that come with having your flyer blown up, which can be much more devastating for occupants.

barnowl wrote:

 AveImperator wrote:

 phoenix darkus wrote:
From a fire-support standpoint, I'd go with the Roc Pattern SE.

I see the Spartan as an assault vehicle, it has guns, but its potential is in delivering a large unit into the fray.

You're not fielding an assault unit, so to me the Roc SE complements your army better, combined with the Damocles rhino you have a pretty reliable chance of bringing it in when you want it.

Also, take a look at the Legacies of Glory in Imperial Armour, Warmachines of the Adeptus Astartes as there may be something that will mesh well with the Roc SE.

Good luck.

A chapter master + 5 Thunder Hammer Terminators are not an assault unit?

But not really one that needs the Spartan. Any of the Landraiders can about do the job for them, as can teleport.

Need a tank hunter, and 6 terminators dont fit in a Godhammer LR, and IMO two more twin linked lascannons and an additional HP are worth the extra 45 points.

D weapons are certainly "more common," in the sense that some but not many opponents use them. It's benefits apply equally well against a Storm Eagle in hover mode.

This isn't true.

As a delivery system in a meta full of D weapons, the Eagle will be much more reliable.
The turn it flies on it will not be able to be hit with templates at all, and only on 6's with everything else, the next turn it will be hovering, but it will already have done it's purpose and delivered its cargo.

A landraider on the other hand must drive across the board, which increases the risk of being taken out before reaching the opponent.

The same logic applies to other hard anti tank counters too.

The biggest downside of the eagle is that you are looking at a turn 3 charge at the earliest.

 Big Blind Bill wrote:

D weapons are certainly "more common," in the sense that some but not many opponents use them. It's benefits apply equally well against a Storm Eagle in hover mode.

This isn't true.

As a delivery system in a meta full of D weapons, the Eagle will be much more reliable.
The turn it flies on it will not be able to be hit with templates at all, and only on 6's with everything else, the next turn it will be hovering, but it will already have done it's purpose and delivered its cargo.

A landraider on the other hand must drive across the board, which increases the risk of being taken out before reaching the opponent.

The same logic applies to other hard anti tank counters too.

The biggest downside of the eagle is that you are looking at a turn 3 charge at the earliest.

Yeah, but the point of the Storm Eagle is not just to deliver troops. It's supposed to serve as a fire base afterwards.

You are right, template weapons cannot hit it while it's in the air. Lascannons and anything with Skyfire can. I have seen too many of them blow up before dropping off their troops to agree with the logic they are somehow more reliable.