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So they're the same weapon skill and ballistic skill as a space marine and have two wounds...

Only the initiative of a normal human though.
They can take power weapons and power fists and bolt pistols and plasma pistols in any combination.

I always put Melta bombs on mine and they're usually leading a 20 man unit that has a champion with Melta bombs also.

Which weapon load out would be best? Still not decided which covenant to take (any but Nurgle)

I was thinking power sword but wounding marines on 5's will suck!

If you have paid for the champion in the unit, powerfist every time (or nothing). Let the champion take the challenges and the Enforcer can hit with 3 st6 ap2 attacks, which increases to 5 on the charge, because you are certainly taking him for the combat drugs primarily right?
Also don't forget - enforcers can't have covenants. Nothing stopping you taking a second Demagogue with a covenant and putting him in the squad (just make sure you give his disciples an autocannon or lascannon so they aren't wasted). Also Demagogues only pay 15pts for a fist! I'd go for cov of khorne and slannesh (on the demagogue and champ repectively)
So give the champ either nothing or a power weapon and a pf to the enforcer and demagogue and you'll be getting 10 st6 ap2 attacks rerolling failed to wounds on the charge. Rerolling failed to hits too if your demagogue is an arch-heretic.

Yes to combat drugs. I know they can't take covenants... The enforcer gains the benefits of the covenant from the champion.


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Powerfists on the champion/demagogue and the enforcer then? Sounds good... Not sure where my arch demagogue will do if he is in one of the 20 man platoons... Power fist on him too? That's 25 extra bodies worth of points spent on three T3 models though...


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Forgot to mention, arch demagogue will be reaver. Every time.

I run mine with just the melta bombs and combat drugs - the powerfist/weapon always seems overpriced when viewed in terms of extra bodies the points could buy you at three points a pop.

Sorry I wasn't clear there - I mean pf on the ARCH demagogue and enforcer (i use demagogue for shorthand for arch demagogue which can obviously get confusing). And nothing or power sword/maul (just not axe), on the champion. Allow champion to take challenges. Arch demagogue pays 15pts for a pf.
So 2 pfs and either yay or nay to a power weapon (so champ can take challenges and fists can still swing)

I want to run a maxed platoon of five x twenty man squads with 5+

The other troop choice will be one or more grenadier squads.

Five enforcers is my limit so perfect for a maxed platoon.


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Sounds good! Will re-jig my list

The issue is that those 3pt bodies aren't whats causing the damage.
Heres the difference when you look at the whole unit (assuming arch demagogue is 25pts base):
Demagogue with pf cov of khorne and bloody handed reaver, Enforcer with combat drugs, 20 infantry with champ with cov of slannesh. 190pts.
This gives you fleet, 87 st3 ap- and 5 st6 ap2 attacks on the charge rerolling wounds.
For the cost of the pf on the enforcer you pay 215pts and now you have 81 st3 ap- and 10 st6 ap2 attacks on the charge rerolling wounds. None of which can be challenged out due to the champion. The unit is a lot more dangerous for the sake of 25pts, and the opponent still has to go through 20 bullet sponges before they cause any serious damage.


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If taking enforcers, id give every champ a cov of khorne and take 2 arch demagogues for the pfs/covs of slannesh.

I thought it was recently said by forgeworld we cannot mix covenants. I also don't think of those 3 points bodies as much damage, but there still needs to be some bodies left to reach combat and with at best a 5+ 6+ feel no pain it's always going to be a struggle with renegades and so I always want as many as I can get for as cheap points as possible. I also don't want to run a full horde list, one maxed platoon is enough for me!

If I take a second arch demagogue like you suggest then thats another two troops tax.

No its not. Renegade command squads are 1+. So you can take another as your second HQ.
The 3pt comment was in response to Crystal-Maze saying not to equip a pf on your enforcer. I agree that you need as many bodies as possible to reach the opponent, but you also need to be able to actually do something when you get there.
I have not heard about not being able to have more than 1 coveneant in a unit. Where did you hear this?

I have been misreading that page for ages then, wow... definately got to take a second arch demagogue then!

Hmm this has expanded the many possibilities even more in my mind! Thanks for bringing that to my attention lol

No worries

Oh there was a thread here where someone posted the questions about the IA13 book they sent to Forgeworld, who then proceeded to post the replies forgeworld sent them (by email, so not 100% official but as close as you could get to a FAQ)


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I will try and find it

I accept FW emails as official. Bear in mind btw that the second demagogue cannot have a devotion, only the WL demagogue can (but they can take covenants). I'm sure you already are aware of this, but it'd suck if you weren't and I didn't point it out and then you spent time making a list with 2 different devotions.

It'd be so easy to break the game if we could take 2 devotions! Imagine an Ordnance tyrant from vraks in a purge detachment and a master of the horde with his unending host. The host surges forward into combat, the ordnance tyrant gets artillery to shoot opponents units locked in combat (plus creating dangerous terrain), and renegade units that die just come back the next turn and repeat.

Yes that would be silly overpowered!

It's fine that the other Arch Demagogue cant take a devotion, though if it could take a second one it would be Arch Heretek to get that 6+ feel no pain on all my 5+ renegades with covenant of khorne/slaanesh/tzeentch.

I'll just give my other Arch Demagogue the 5++ so their stats are matching (apart from the inability to take hotshot weapons, which I probably am not going to on my Arch Demagogue).

Still trying to find that thread!


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Oh no! Wait... if I take a second Arch Demagogue how can I fit in my Enforcers... they use up a HQ slot

Ah pants! I didn't think that one through all the way.

What you could do is take The Purge detachment for allies. Take a couple of spawn units or disciples (needs 2 elites but no troops are compulsory) and this will unlock 2 more HQ and 4 more HS slots for you.


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I think bs4 disciples sounds like it fits well with your theme.

Yes good call... I will see if I can make that work with my list


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I cant find the thread where the mixing of covenants was mentioned, must have imagined it!

Here's some replies from forgeworld but not what I was looking for

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/638139.page#7635848

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/304162-ia13-vraks-2nd-faqerrata-from-forgeworld/

Cheers for that!

Are we talking about mixing covenants in a unit or in the full army? Because the latter is okay, and how exactly would you get two covenants in the same unit?

In a unit you can mix two covenants by placing your IC Arch Demagogue with covenant of xxx with a unit that has a champion/demagogue with covenant of yyy


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We were trying to determine if that was allowed or not, albeit slightly off topic but it all links together regarding enforcer weapon loadout

I suppose that you could do that.

It's probably intended to be no, similar to chaos marks.


Speaking of which, I swear I also remember a forgeworld email saying that you couldn't have it . ....

Not seen an email, does seem unintentional. Mind you it's possibly unintentional that the arch demagogues are Independent Characters, given they come with a compulsory retinue.

(Classic fw rules, and other armies get characters shown with retinues, which they can't legally join because they aren't ICs)

IC Is intentional for sure don't give people an excuse by suggesting it's not on these forums wakakaka

I'm happy to play as written til we get an faq :-) (and when was the last faq released by anyone ?!)

Thanks to all your advice I have written up a small 1500 list relating to this feedback

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/662803.page