Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

...the Tie Punisher was born



Despite my initial misgivings about the design, I picked one up today anyway. With 3 Shields and 6 Hull, it's not far off the stats of a large ship. Plus, when you kit it out with extra munitions (for a mere 2 points!), you suddenly have two of ALL your missiles, torpedoes and bombs. The top pilot (Redline) can also get 2 target locks on the same ship, meaning this thing can throw an awful lot of ordnance at one of your opponent's vessels and then do it again the following turn.

The downside is that like a Tie Bomber, it moves like a brick and can't barrel roll (although it can boost for some weird reason). Once you've (finally) unloaded all the hurt, it's not going to be doing very much, so those missiles and torpedos had better count for something.

Anyone put one down on the table yet?

I'm picking mine up tomorrow and having my first game with it. Overall I like the idea of the ship, and am planning on using Redline to maul larger ships, using his double target locks and extra munitions to fire missiles all game and use the second target lock to re-roll the attack dice. Hopefully The punisher will be as good as I think it will be

I personally cannot wait to try deathrain. His ability is crazy and just begs to be explored. I've already heard of some crazy stuff using experimental interface with advanced sensors to boost, drop a mine, then barrel roll out of your arc and shoot you with missiles as the mine blows up on top of you.

I'm pretty excited to try out Deathrain as well. I think he would be great with Enhanced Scopes, flinging bombs and Conner Nets before all of the aces move.

I have visions of glory Conner Netting Fel, leaving him actionless and exposed...

Ah, so that's what the enhanced scopes are for. Spent most of yesterday wondering why I would want pilot skill 0 for the activation phase.

 Flashman wrote:
Ah, so that's what the enhanced scopes are for. Spent most of yesterday wondering why I would want pilot skill 0 for the activation phase.

That is one use. The other main use for it is to move first to ensure a block and get your action.

You can also use it offensively by putting it on a Lambda with Anti-Pursuit Lasers. Fly it directly into the enemy formation and wreck havoc.

Played a few games with it yesterday, I was pretty disappointed with how it performs. Missiles and Torpedoes are just not very good, even with Extra Munitions and Redline's target lock buff. Maybe with Jendon handing out target locks you could turn these into powerful missile boats.

Had some luck using advanced sensors and experimental interface to re-position the ship using boost, and the drop a Conner Net right onto people. However, the K-Wing's advanced SLAM gives it way more flexibility to do that. The Conner Net itself is utterly brutal if you can hit a ship with it, though I'm a bit confused as to how the timing of the ionization works (if you land the template directly on a ship who hasn't moved, does he do his regular maneuver this turn?). Deathrain is a very unique pilot, and may prove powerful, but I haven't quite grokked how to use him effectively.

One thing I have yet to try is to fly them as a 4 ship swarm with Accuracy Corrector and the Mk2 engines. With that setup, they are basically a B-Wing with boost instead of barrel roll, and one extra total health.

My idea that I'll be trying is running Redline with Advanced Targeting Computer, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, and Cluster Mines. Then run Captain Jonus (or whatever that TIE Bomber's name is), so then Redline gets 2 target locks, spends one to shoot 2 waves of a Cluster missile attack, each one rerolling a single die because of the TIE Bomber, and each set of 3 dice getting an additional Crit added to it because of Advanced targeting computer. Then you have the chance to do that again, then start dropping cluster mines.

 krodarklorr wrote:
My idea that I'll be trying is running Redline with Advanced Targeting Computer, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, and Cluster Mines. Then run Captain Jonus (or whatever that TIE Bomber's name is), so then Redline gets 2 target locks, spends one to shoot 2 waves of a Cluster missile attack, each one rerolling a single die because of the TIE Bomber, and each set of 3 dice getting an additional Crit added to it because of Advanced targeting computer. Then you have the chance to do that again, then start dropping cluster mines.

Advanced Targeting computer is TIE Advanced Only.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My idea that I'll be trying is running Redline with Advanced Targeting Computer, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, and Cluster Mines. Then run Captain Jonus (or whatever that TIE Bomber's name is), so then Redline gets 2 target locks, spends one to shoot 2 waves of a Cluster missile attack, each one rerolling a single die because of the TIE Bomber, and each set of 3 dice getting an additional Crit added to it because of Advanced targeting computer. Then you have the chance to do that again, then start dropping cluster mines.

Advanced Targeting computer is TIE Advanced Only.

Wow, you're right. I thought it was just a sensor upgrade. Welp, that card is still poop in my eyes then.

If Missiles and Torpedoes are still weak on Redline with Extra Munition, then there really isn't much hope on those ordnance ever really being good. I think they will be fine, tho and I plan on running Decimator and Punisher.

I think that Redline, with Cluster missiles and Fire-control system, could be good. Acquire lock, spend 1st lock to fire missiles. Spend second lock to re-roll. Acquire more locks after performing the attack the first time. Re-roll on second roll. Refresh. Future turns, have focus available to further boost roll (If target survives).

The biggest drawback is the more stuff you stick on an already expensive ship = fewer points for other ships.
When your bomber dies his fewer/weaker companions will have a hard time making his points back.

Death rain is awesome, the cluster bombs are pretty gross.

Deathrain extra munitions, exp. interface, advanced sensors, proximity mine and cluster mines. I think I put some cheap torpedoes on cause I had 2 points. If they get in range of shooting, you can hit them first thing next turn. Should work on arc dodgers pretty well

But yeah, it flies like a brick.

A punisher is nice and tough - only one hit shy of a lambda - but yeah, you really need a plan to make them work.

Jonus is nice but for cluster missiles integral accuracy correctors are damn near as good, freeing up the points.

I don't think you need redline and fcs with clusters - thats generating locks faster than you can spend the damn things. With standard missiles, yes.

I'll be honest - most things I can think of to use a punisher for could be done just as well with a bomber

locarno24 wrote:

I'll be honest - most things I can think of to use a punisher for could be done just as well with a bomber

I have to disagree about that. Bombers can't take Sensor upgrades (aka Enhanced Scopes), which is a slew of useful upgrades that too few ships in this game can take.

I'm waiting for the S-Thread Tracers from the Inquisitor's TIE in Wave 8. Then pair Captain Jonus with VI and a pair of Punishers will make an excellent squad in Epic Games.

I do think the multiple bombers may be better than tie punishes just for the better dial and the fact that you can fit more in a list ( 5 points a pop more adds up when you multiply them)

Bombers are more efficient Missile/Torpedo boats on paper. In practice, the various sensor upgrades can improve the action economy of the Punisher enough that it can actually get the target locks it needs in more situations. It also can carry twice as many bombs, and the Sensor upgrades give it better tools for positioning them (the Bomber is much less flexible in that regard).

If nothing else, the Bomber has it's place in Epic games as a dedicated capital ship killer or as a way to thin out big swarms with assault missiles. 400v400pt epic games have about twice the ship density as regular X-Wing games, so you have more potential targets.

I absolutely love the punisher! I've been running deathrain with 2x scimitar squadron pilots and night beast and am so far 4-0. Deathrain's barrel roll after (forward!) bombing is awesome when paired with a move/boost. Other than that, it's just a matter of mitigating the weak bomber/punisher dials.

I fielded this for a 150 point game (that tends to take up more of an evening at my gaming club than just a 100 points one).

MISSILES DON'T MISS

150 points

PILOTS

Captain Jonus [Proton Torpedoes, Predator, Munitions Failsafe]

Major Rhymer [Advanced Proton Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, Determination]

Darth Vader [TIE/x1, Cluster Missiles, Squad Leader, Stealth Device, Advanced Targeting Computer]

“Redline” [Sensor Jammer, Ion Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles]



Of course, the internet, being the internet, called me a complete moron for not fielding Redline with Fire Control Systems.

Personally, I found the FCS a little redundant considering the list had Jonus and Vader flying around nearby in this list. Additionally, in the game I used him, he would have been dead within the first couple of turns if it weren't for that Sensor Jammer.

Anyhow, it seemed a good 'synergy-ey' list that helped me improve my formation-ey flying and let me use missiles.

The only real damp squib was the Ion Torpedoes, they really were a bad choice, I would have been better off with some other weapon that would be more useful late game, if he lives that long.

Just tried out Redline with 2x Cluster Missiles, FCS, and Extra Munitions the other night. Pretty much annihilated Han is 2 turns on his own.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Just tried out Redline with 2x Cluster Missiles, FCS, and Extra Munitions the other night. Pretty much annihilated Han is 2 turns on his own.

Another thing I like about this combo is that, assuming you already have a target lock on your intended target (easy to accomplish with FCS), you can do K-Turns and still fire your cluster missiles at full effect. If you're just outside of range 1 during that initial attack, you can do a 4k and still be in arc/range of your opponent almost no matter what they do (only a 5 forward or boost will save him). The Punisher has enough overall health to survive that initial joust and deliver that one-two punch.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Just tried out Redline with 2x Cluster Missiles, FCS, and Extra Munitions the other night. Pretty much annihilated Han is 2 turns on his own.

Another thing I like about this combo is that, assuming you already have a target lock on your intended target, you can do K-Turns and still fire your cluster missiles at full effect. If you're just outside of range 1 during that initial attack, you can do a 4k and still be in arc/range of your opponent almost no matter what they do (only a 5 forward or boost will save him). The Punisher has enough overall health to survive that initial joust and deliver that one-two punch.

Didn't even think of that, but that is true. I also just thought of paring him with Colonel Vessery with a HLC and Outmaneuver. I've done very well with Defenders, and one with good firepower that gets free Target Locks if it focuses down the Punisher's target seems promising. They could probably kill anything, including a Decimator, in no more than 2 turns.

Cluster Missiles on Redline /w FCS will average about 9 hit results in two rounds of shooting (out of 12 possible hits) - so you can't quite KO a decimator with your two initial rounds of firing. But on the flip side, even a decked out Chiraneau is unlikely to get through your shields on that initial engagement, whereas Redline is going to be dipping into his hull points (and even laying down some crits). Fat Han is vulnerable to this as well, as he can only use C3PO on one of those cluster missile attacks. No to mention that there's about 65 points worth of other ships in your list that are laying down the hurt alongside Redline.

Redline works well enough with just the cluster missiles, but Assault Missiles are also a nice for dealing with swarms (which would otherwise just focus down the Punisher in a couple of turns).

 DanielBeaver wrote:
Cluster Missiles on Redline /w FCS will average about 9 hit results in two rounds of shooting (out of 12 possible hits) - so you can't quite KO a decimator with your two initial rounds of firing. But on the flip side, even a decked out Chiraneau is unlikely to get through your shields on that initial engagement, whereas Redline is going to be dipping into his hull points (and even laying down some crits). Fat Han is vulnerable to this as well, as he can only use C3PO on one of those cluster missile attacks. No to mention that there's about 65 points worth of other ships in your list that are laying down the hurt alongside Redline.

Redline works well enough with just the cluster missiles, but Assault Missiles are also a nice for dealing with swarms (which would otherwise just focus down the Punisher in a couple of turns).

Yeah, just reread Colonel Vessery, so I'll be using him with Redline, and an Obsidian Squadron Pilot thrown in there for points. That should be able to focus down any ship in the game in no more than 2 turns.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
My idea that I'll be trying is running Redline with Advanced Targeting Computer, Extra Munitions, Cluster Missiles, and Cluster Mines. Then run Captain Jonus (or whatever that TIE Bomber's name is), so then Redline gets 2 target locks, spends one to shoot 2 waves of a Cluster missile attack, each one rerolling a single die because of the TIE Bomber, and each set of 3 dice getting an additional Crit added to it because of Advanced targeting computer. Then you have the chance to do that again, then start dropping cluster mines.

Advanced Targeting computer is TIE Advanced Only.

Wow, you're right. I thought it was just a sensor upgrade. Welp, that card is still poop in my eyes then.

Also, you can't use ATC with secondary weapons. And the card most definitely isn't poop on a TIE Advanced; it turn a 2 attack ship into a 3 attack ship with a guaranteed crit every attack... All for only one point.

Anyway, I flew against Deathrain (Advanced Sensors + Cluster Mines + Proton Bomb + Extra Munitions) on Sunday night. He came close to dropping Cluster Mine on my K-wing, but I was able to avoid it and fly past him and then plink him a few times with TLT before Dash swooped in and finished him off. Overall, I wasn't impressed and neither was my friend who was flying him (it also didn't help that he lost his Fel on the third turn thanks to Miranda and her TLT).

The ATC isn't poop in the least, what it is is a fix to boost the damage output of the TIE Adv, which it does quite well, and shouldn't really be viewed as anything else.

 Azreal13 wrote:
The ATC isn't poop in the least, what it is is a fix to boost the damage output of the TIE Adv, which it does quite well, and shouldn't really be viewed as anything else.

Just Ran Marek Steele and Vader, and they are in' brutal.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Anyway, I flew against Deathrain (Advanced Sensors + Cluster Mines + Proton Bomb + Extra Munitions) on Sunday night. He came close to dropping Cluster Mine on my K-wing, but I was able to avoid it and fly past him and then plink him a few times with TLT before Dash swooped in and finished him off. Overall, I wasn't impressed and neither was my friend who was flying him (it also didn't help that he lost his Fel on the third turn thanks to Miranda and her TLT).

Well yeah. Deathrain is okay, but Redline is where it's at.