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I was just wondering if anyone has thought about a Kings of War skirmish level game? I know that KoW is all about large scale battles, and that is great! But, I was wondering if anyone has thought about a true skirmish level game...like Mordheim?

A Deadzone-style fantasy game has been talked about before and may be in development.

Mantic has already cloned all of GW's other games, so it's just a matter of time.

In the mean time, the gaming market is absolutely flooded with excellent Fantasy skirmish games! Off the top of my head, you've got:

LotR
Frostgrave
Mordhiem
Song of Blades and Heroes
OnePage Skirmish
WFB Regiments of Renown
Wyrdwars

And plenty of others I can't think of right now.

Dungeon Saga makes for a good skirmish game with the expanded rules allowing any model from KoW to be used.

Thanks for the replies. I am going to get Dungeon Saga, but I was really interested in a game where you can recruit warbands, and watch them progress...like Mordheim. We had a blast with that back in the day, but lucky rolls could make certain warband members WAY too powerful. So, I was wondering if a "Mordheim" like game was even thought about, but with the balance of KoW.

As per the last open day Q&A on youtube, Fantasy Deadzone is on a list of 5 future post-Warpath projects they want to do, with neither specified time frame, nor an order of precedence given. Also the other 4 projects were not named.

 NTRabbit wrote:
As per the last open day Q&A on youtube, Fantasy Deadzone is on a list of 5 future post-Warpath projects they want to do, with neither specified time frame, nor an order of precedence given. Also the other 4 projects were not named.

Man-o-War, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic, Warmaster

 lord_blackfang wrote:

Man-o-War, Battlefleet Gothic, Epic, Warmaster

My group would be all over this.

I've heard there are issues with Deadzone's balance (the fantasy game is likely to use similar mechanics), so I worry about the balance of a possible fantasy version. I just hope Mantic lets their rules committee balance it. I think they've done a great job with KoW. My group has been gaming together for 15 years, we've never had so many close battles/draws.

I've been dominating my group with my Dark Elves since their 7th edition book. Strangely, I sucked with my Dark Elves in 6th edition. My brain must have become much more powerful at the same time the 7th edition Dark Elf book came out. Only possible explanation.

Now that we are playing KoW it's suddenly very even. Their brains must have finally caught up to mine.

Deadzone suffers primarily from having had 1 guy do all the work while also developing 3 other games at the same time. The rules are brilliant, but special abilities, factions and scenarios weren't playtested properly. Which is a running theme with Mantic's games, I think.

There's a Rules Committee for Deadzone that worked on the new Infestation book, I think squig might be on it?

If you look at the Mantic forum admin groups there are separate RCs for KoW, Warpath and Deadzone, though with some shared membership.

Deadzone is being reworked. Hopefully 2nd edition will be a little cleaner and more balanced.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Mantic has already cloned all of GW's other games, so it's just a matter of time.

Even to the point that the guy who wrote Mordheim wrote KoW and I am sure he has it in him to do a fantasy skirmish ruleset.

Don't forget they kidnapped Rick Priestly's dog and held him for ransom until he wrote the intro to the new KoW rulebook calling it "the definitive mass battle fantasy game".

That is the only reason Rick would say something like that right? Or is it because GW no longer makes a mass battle fantasy game.

Calling all 10 pages of actual rules for KOW a clone of WHFB is like... calling Age of Sigmar's 6 pages of rules a clone of KoW? (DOH!!)


As long as they use 6 sided dice they are derivatives.

That Lee Guy




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red Viper wrote:
My group would be all over this.

I've heard there are issues with Deadzone's balance (the fantasy game is likely to use similar mechanics), so I worry about the balance of a possible fantasy version. I just hope Mantic lets their rules committee balance it. I think they've done a great job with KoW. My group has been gaming together for 15 years, we've never had so many close battles/draws.

I've been dominating my group with my Dark Elves since their 7th edition book. Strangely, I sucked with my Dark Elves in 6th edition. My brain must have become much more powerful at the same time the 7th edition Dark Elf book came out. Only possible explanation.

Now that we are playing KoW it's suddenly very even. Their brains must have finally caught up to mine.

Deadzone's mechanics used the exploding dice system from Dreadball (Same rules writer) and are entirely different from FoW. They are addressing the balance issues in DZ and improving the campaign rules in the new release.

What is this heresy you utter that WHFB army lists are not balanced?

I for one don't trust Mantic. They spent 8 months playtesting KoW 2nd and stooped so low as to release the changes for free to allow the entire Mantic community to play test them for balance and re-word any spells or abilities that would lead to abuse, er cheese...er..balance issues in competitive play.

Worse, they are doing it again with the newest armies. What kind of game company cannot look at a unit with a new ability and not automatically know how many points it should be be or how it will interact with every other rule in the game?

Yes, that was sarcasm

Respectfully,
That Lee guy

I

To be fair Kings of War already plays and scales just as well to Warmaster as it does a normal WFB scale. And i'm fairly sure Warpath will scale down to 6mm epic proportions just as well too.

That said, a space ship game would be pretty attractive. FullThrust is it's own bag of problems being "The Deep End", and presumably mantic will make ships that look good as opposed to flying castles.

lees_shadow wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Mantic has already cloned all of GW's other games, so it's just a matter of time.

Even to the point that the guy who wrote Mordheim wrote KoW and I am sure he has it in him to do a fantasy skirmish ruleset.

Don't forget they kidnapped Rick Priestly's dog and held him for ransom until he wrote the intro to the new KoW rulebook calling it "the definitive mass battle fantasy game".

That is the only reason Rick would say something like that right? Or is it because GW no longer makes a mass battle fantasy game.

Calling all 10 pages of actual rules for KOW a clone of WHFB is like... calling Age of Sigmar's 6 pages of rules a clone of KoW? (DOH!!)

As long as they use 6 sided dice they are derivatives.
I

Despite very different rulesets, pretending that KoW doesn't have a direct lineage from WHFB is disingenuous at best and horribly dishonest at worst. No-one is suggesting that the rules mechanics are a direct rip-off, just the themes and scales. The same applies to HeroQuest and the new DKH, (the old one and Pandora have more in common with Dungeonbowl or Space Hulk), DeadZone and Necromunda, DreadBall and Blood Bowl and of course Warpath with 40k. At least when you try this on you're only lying to yourself, though.

But hey, there's nothing wrong with ripping off an idea and doing a better job with it. Iteration is a normal thing in every other industry, and is just as normal in games of all stripes. That's why we have Incursion (Space Hulk) and World of Warcraft (EverQuest). I have absolutely no problem with them cloning WHFB (or any other GW game) and doing it better.

generic Fantasy Skirmish Game based on SAGA
http://www.a-fantastic-saga.com/