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Will this list bring glory, and more importantly victory, to the Imperium?

HQ
[1] Tank Commander 'Major Weiss'
-Leman Russ Battletank (Lascannon) 'Saint Pietr'
-Leman Russ Battletank (Lascannon) 'Saint Severo'

Troops
[1] Veterans (Grenadiers, x2 Melta, x1 Plasma) 'Whitemanes'

[2] Infantry Platoon '3rd Platoon, Bravo Company'
-PCS (Flamer) 'Lieutenant Carson'
-Infantry Squad '1st Squad'
-Infantry Squad '2nd Squad'
-Infantry Squad (Mortar) '3rd Squad'
-Infantry Squad (Mortar) '4th Squad'
-Infantry Squad (Mortar) '5th Squad'

Fast Attack
[1] Vendetta Gunship 'Hawk One'

Dedicated Transport
[1] Chimera (Dozer Blades) 'Whitemanes'


My opponents tend to field fairly compact armies, with this list I aim to flood them with target saturation. It should put a damper in even our resident Tyranid player's step when I outnumber him and -still- pack a punch.

The lascannons on the battle tanks will always be snap firing, you could use the points to ad more HW into your platoon or upgrade to full plasma in the vet squad.

Your vets are going in the Chimera I take it? If so I'd consider getting rid of the grenadiers and just using the points to add some flamers to the blob squad to blunt any melee attack, or give them krak grenades to make them a threat to vehicles in melee. The 4+ armor never really seems to end up mattering in every game I play especially when they're nice and safe in their metal box. Otherwise it looks like a solid list. Good mix of armor, mobility, and infantry for a 1k army.

I'd get rid of the las cannons on the lemon russes and use the points to get some auto-cannons in a couple of squads.
Otherwise, seems pretty ace to me.
I love Mortars. I get so many people telling me I'm dumb for using them, but I find that they end up doing much more than a Heavy Bolter.

Tenzilla wrote:The lascannons on the battle tanks will always be snap firing, you could use the points to ad more HW into your platoon or upgrade to full plasma in the vet squad.

Tiberius501 wrote:I'd get rid of the las cannons on the lemon russes and use the points to get some auto-cannons in a couple of squads.

I'm tempted to keep the las cannons because that means the Russ's still pose a threat from a weapon destroyed result, and the TC's BS4 would be more apparent.


With those 20 extra points, would that be better spent on HW such as Autocannons, or should it be put towards krak grenades so the Infantry Squads aren't totally useless against a vehicle heavy list?

Otherwise, seems pretty ace to me.
I love Mortars. I get so many people telling me I'm dumb for using them, but I find that they end up doing much more than a Heavy Bolter.

Same here. For 5 points I'm surprised by how often they more than make up for their points cost. Even Leadership 9-10 units will fail a pinning test every so often.

chrispy1991 wrote:Your vets are going in the Chimera I take it? If so I'd consider getting rid of the grenadiers and just using the points to add some flamers to the blob squad to blunt any melee attack, or give them krak grenades to make them a threat to vehicles in melee. The 4+ armor never really seems to end up mattering in every game I play especially when they're nice and safe in their metal box. Otherwise it looks like a solid list. Good mix of armor, mobility, and infantry for a 1k army.

Cheers mate. Should I drop the Plasma altogether since only two weapons can fire from the hatch?

Dont drop the plasma. That is the whole point of the mech vets! carapace armor does help for the gets hot rolls, but its to you, I always opt to take it, because it helps keep them alive on the gets hot rolls, and when the transport eventually blows up.


As far as the LRBT if you have the extra points and find you actually get use out of it go for it, but I hardly ever have my standard battle tanks damaged, with their range, and so many other targets moving up the board people always seem to think they are able to ignore them.

Why a tank commander? You get marginal benefit out of them in any case and on a LRBT almost nothing. Better served to loose him. If you really want the LRBT then sure, take them separate in HS slots and take a CCS instead. Loosing the tank commander and 2 lascannons you are almost there. Virtually their only use is as Pask in a punisher, and that costs half an arm and a leg.

Dropping down the infantry squads to 4 would also enable you to take either a priest or commissar in the blob. Always worthwhile, usually Commissars for static firebase blobs for order reliability and priests for moving ones. Additionally some special weapons, a couple of flamers at least.

Not a fan of the chimera vets. It provides an easy target being the only soft armour. I would rather take 2 platoons of 30man blobs than 1 blob, 1 chimera. 1 blob static w/ autoC or lasC with commissar using CCS orders and the other either same or moving w/ flamers and a priest. With spare PCSs could load one with flamers to put in the vendetta for late game objective clearance. If the vendetta blows... Eh, they're cheap.

Mortars are OK, I wouldnt look to put them on IG squads as they have the ablative bodies to take hits. Rather on CCSs you want to hide/protect but still be able to take a shot with. Barrage doesn't cause pinning checks anymore BTW.

Rather than 2 LRBT could be worthwhile to look at another varient. Such as an Exterminator or an Eradicator, either with HB sponsons. Eradicator w/ HB sponsons is cheap as chips, puts out a few shots and some ignores cover. Camo netting can be a decent investment on ones camping in cover if points are available.

 rahxephon wrote:
Why a tank commander? You get marginal benefit out of them in any case and on a LRBT almost nothing. Better served to loose him. If you really want the LRBT then sure, take them separate in HS slots and take a CCS instead. Loosing the tank commander and 2 lascannons you are almost there. Virtually their only use is as Pask in a punisher, and that costs half an arm and a leg.

Truthfully? The points cost is my main qualm in 1000pts. That and I can reliably get a useful Warlord Trait (Old Grudges/Leadership Aura/Outflank) whereas it's a little more dicey with the CCS. In a larger match I'd take a CCS instead, but merely taking the TC and Lascannons out leaves me with a relatively useless HQ if I lack the points to invest further in them.

Dropping down the infantry squads to 4 would also enable you to take either a priest or commissar in the blob. Always worthwhile, usually Commissars for static firebase blobs for order reliability and priests for moving ones. Additionally some special weapons, a couple of flamers at least.

Certainly worth considering, but I'm not sold on the idea of making these squads a single blob. I know it's the go-to tactic for many players, and with a commissar/priest in tow it can be a tough cookie. But 5 separate units to target rather than a single strong one has benefits of its own, not the least of which being able to flood the field with Objective Secured models where most of my opponents will struggle to secure even two objectives.

Not a fan of the chimera vets. It provides an easy target being the only soft armour. I would rather take 2 platoons of 30man blobs than 1 blob, 1 chimera. 1 blob static w/ autoC or lasC with commissar using CCS orders and the other either same or moving w/ flamers and a priest. With spare PCSs could load one with flamers to put in the vendetta for late game objective clearance. If the vendetta blows... Eh, they're cheap.

I was under the impression Flyers start in reserve, wouldn't I have to deploy the Platoon as a whole?

Mortars are OK, I wouldnt look to put them on IG squads as they have the ablative bodies to take hits. Rather on CCSs you want to hide/protect but still be able to take a shot with. Barrage doesn't cause pinning checks anymore BTW.

Well bugger. Now I'm torn between mortars or autocannons.

Do sniper weapons still cause pinning?

Rather than 2 LRBT could be worthwhile to look at another varient. Such as an Exterminator or an Eradicator, either with HB sponsons. Eradicator w/ HB sponsons is cheap as chips, puts out a few shots and some ignores cover. Camo netting can be a decent investment on ones camping in cover if points are available.

Worth looking into I guess. I've never given the Eradicator a second look.

Sniper no longer causes pinning and they also changed it from rending to Ap2 so even more useless against vehicles. Some weird changes.

The use of the CCS is primarily their orders. Currently the guardsmen squads are ill equipped to benefit from many of the senior officer orders, but that's something that should be changed either way in my view.

An issue of not combining them is that total casualties become less of an issue but spread does. Each squad only needs 3 casualties to cause an Ld check which is pretty easy to do. And about a 3rd of the squads taking checks will break. So it wouldn't be unbelievable to have all 5 of your squads needing to take checks after a single shooting phase. Adding regimental standards or lord commissars for area of effect Ld doesn't help all that much. It's a small area and keeps you clustered. If you really want to flood the field with OS take a conscrpit blob + preist. Only a little worse than straight guardsmen but significantly cheaper.

You can put the PCS in the Valk. The platoons a single troops slot but not a single unit.

Firstly, I just want to say I'm not meaning to be argumentative. I truly appreciate the feedback you're offering here.

 rahxephon wrote:
Sniper no longer causes pinning and they also changed it from rending to Ap2 so even more useless against vehicles. Some weird changes.

Well that's . There goes my consideration for a throwaway 30pt ratling unit. Might still take them against players that favour MCs, but that lack of pinning really hurts their appeal.

I might keep a mortar or two in one Infantry squad as backfield objective squatters, and as you've said flamers for the blob/mobile squads. What about the PCS, if I were to decide against putting them in a Vendetta?

The use of the CCS is primarily their orders. Currently the guardsmen squads are ill equipped to benefit from many of the senior officer orders, but that's something that should be changed either way in my view.

Certainly if I had the points to flesh out my infantry squads a bit more then the CCS would be worth taking for their orders, but as it is even reducing their number from 5 to 4 would only allow me to scrape together a barebones CCS, I'd have to make sacrifices in other areas to make them worthwhile. And I'm not sure what a 'worthwhile' CCS looks like, though I do like the sound of their advisers.

An issue of not combining them is that total casualties become less of an issue but spread does. Each squad only needs 3 casualties to cause an Ld check which is pretty easy to do. And about a 3rd of the squads taking checks will break. So it wouldn't be unbelievable to have all 5 of your squads needing to take checks after a single shooting phase. Adding regimental standards or lord commissars for area of effect Ld doesn't help all that much. It's a small area and keeps you clustered. If you really want to flood the field with OS take a conscrpit blob + preist. Only a little worse than straight guardsmen but significantly cheaper.

Given my opponents, I would say it is very unlikely. The majority of my opponents would rarely field even half the units in their 1000pts list that I would have if the Infantry Platoon remains split. That and they always prioritize my vehicles, given that in the past I've often played Mech heavy lists.

I am honestly torn, this is something I'll have to figure through playing the game itself.

You can put the PCS in the Valk. The platoons a single troops slot but not a single unit.

Apologies, I must have been unclear in my meaning. A platoon must be deployed (either in reserve or on the field) as a single formation, yes? You can't leave the Infantry Squads on the field and put your PCS in the Valk in Reserve. I was under the impression that the Valk/Vendetta, being Flyers, automatically start the game in reserve.