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Hello
So I bought a Daemonkin codex and was wondering how they give Khorne Berserkers an advantage? I have quite literally a red tide of 40 Berserkers, so how does the codex work for them? What should I do with them and the codex

Eeeehhhh it really doesn't do much for them unless you're running a Fist of Khorne formation. If you've got that many why not run the Kharn formation with like 8 Rhinos?

I must say, you're best troops choice in Daemonkin are Bloodletters. They are cheap to run and the Banner Of Blood gives them +1 to combat resolution and is excellent for deep striking daemons without scatter (imagine that with warp talons). If you do decide to run Berserkers, Rhinos are somewhat of a waste, as they'll just be standing around for a turn and footslogging makes them vulnerable to enemy fire. Get them a Land Raider, then they have a heavily armoured shell that they can assault out of. Bear in mind that you can only use 30 if your 40 berzerkers maximum and will usually only use 20. With 40 Berserkers, you could also bring 2 fist of Khorne formations. Namely, that is 20 Khorne Berserkers jammed into a Kharybdis Assault Claw. Also, if it lands on an enemy unit or fortification when deep striking, they get dealt a SD, AP1 hit.

Zerkers are bad but usable. I'd get a min squad and a rhino with havok launcher or combi-melta. You don't need to get zerkers inside - use rhino to screen them or your other stuff, roll around and score points, do whatever needed. It's another cheap and useful bt point and zerkers are fearless which is nice. If only they were cheaper cause they're not worth the points as is.

Run them with a herald with an axe or the blade of endless bloodshed and the hatred locus since they already have rage, it increases their damage output decently.

That's about all i can think of.

The advantage is the ability to buff them with the blood tithe.
This doesn''t make them good tho. I'm hoping an allied dreadclaw will make them competitive at least.

Getting a kharybdis and a fist of khorne could be entertaining

Rhinos. And maybe a Land Raider if youre staying in 'Dex.

You could get away with as many min sized units as you can and run them up, summoning blood letters to make up for losses while being fearless and unconcerned.

Or run a screen of cultists in front of them.

It's certainly the theme and intention of this army, even if it isn't the winning end all strategy. Of course, i dont play in a tournament scene and see alot of fluff armies that still perform well on the table, while also being a fun and exciting game.

Berzerkers are hilarious as a part of the Fist of Khorne Formation. As stated above, the simple fact you land and deal Str D ap1 to anything you are over is monstrous. Then to boot, assault the turn you come in, which the rules for the formation allow, is even MORE amazing. Multi assault with them and tie up several units for a few turns. Sure it's 700 points, but with 20 bodies, the champion with an axe if Khorne and melta bombs, you are going to hurt pretty much everything.

Not to mention the amazing cheese that is the assault claw and its weaponry afterwards.

Real quick: you guys are not reading the rules to the Fist of Khorne formation correctly. The D hit only effects enemy vehicles and buildings, that's it. It does not effect any other type of unit, meaning you can't expect to instant kill a WK or an enemy deathstar. But then again that's what the zerkers inside are for.

Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

 jackyratos wrote:
Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

That said, Vanilla MOK Marines would do the same job and add a better shooting element too. Just because it's Khorne doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to charge. Hell, you don't always want to to charge.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jackyratos wrote:
Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

That said, Vanilla MOK Marines would do the same job and add a better shooting element too. Just because it's Khorne doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to charge. Hell, you don't always want to to charge.

Some blasphemes stuff going on in this thread...

 andysonic1 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jackyratos wrote:
Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

That said, Vanilla MOK Marines would do the same job and add a better shooting element too. Just because it's Khorne doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to charge. Hell, you don't always want to to charge.

Some blasphemes stuff going on in this thread...

Not blasphemous whatsoever.
1. Buying CCW's and MoK for Vanilla Marines keeps them cheaper than Berserkers. All you miss out on is Fearless and Furious Charge, the latter of which isn't as important thanks to having Bolters and Melta Guns.
2. Those saved points give more room to buy sacrificial units like Bloodletters and Cultists.
3. The Vanilla Marines manage to get more benefit from the Tithe chart in the first place.

Hi All,

Interesting read, run daemonkin myself ... and love throwing zerkers at things ...

where would i find the rules for dreadclaw / assault claw thingy?

Personally I am gutted Kharn and dirge casters arent availabe in daemonkin....

I am toying with maybe go CSM codex pick Kharn as the HQ get 3 LR and use 2 zerker squads that dont have the blod tithe rules and ally the rest on zerkers and herald from daemonkin?

Dread claw is in Imperial Armour 13.

I'm currently thinking allying in Kharn is a good choice . If you mix together units and ICs with and without the Blood For The Blood God rule, you can get the best of both worlds.

cool will check out imperial armour !

kharn a must ... ive had an oppent runing an imperial knight away from him in the past

take that you imperial scum !!!!!! Blood for the blood god ! etc etc

KDK zerkers are actually quite nice, just send them in minimal foots lugger teams and they become an issue if they make it, or fuel if they get short. With KDK tendency to go all-in it's unlikely the enemy can afford to spare much firepower for them while they march, and they can easily clear out stragglers left in the wake of the first strike.

As for the comparison to khorne marines, yes they got bolters, and a bit cheaper and can get weapons. But fearless goes a long way for runners, marines ain't cheaper with specials, and you all forget that ap4, and that ap4 mass of attacks is vital in horde clearing.

Playing against the kdk zerkers I can say they do hit hard when they assault. Obviosly running in min units means the unit is cleared faster but then just turns into a tithe token.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jackyratos wrote:
Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

That said, Vanilla MOK Marines would do the same job and add a better shooting element too. Just because it's Khorne doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to charge. Hell, you don't always want to to charge.

Heresy! ... oh wait .... Hmmmm...... UNHERESY!

 BoomWolf wrote:
KDK zerkers are actually quite nice, just send them in minimal foots lugger teams and they become an issue if they make it, or fuel if they get short. With KDK tendency to go all-in it's unlikely the enemy can afford to spare much firepower for them while they march, and they can easily clear out stragglers left in the wake of the first strike.

As for the comparison to khorne marines, yes they got bolters, and a bit cheaper and can get weapons. But fearless goes a long way for runners, marines ain't cheaper with specials, and you all forget that ap4, and that ap4 mass of attacks is vital in horde clearing.

1. Running them sucks anyway. You're buying a Rhino or Claw. Fearless merely stops them from getting ran over by units they can't fight against anyway, and they have the same durability. Berserker Marines won't actually last any longer than Vanilla MoK Marines.
2. The Marines actually are cheaper with specials. In order to get all that "AP4" (LOL) we spend 270 for a unit of 10 with all Chain Axes and a Rhino. For two points less, we get Bolter + CCW Marines, the Icon, 2 Meltas and a Combi Melta, Melta Bombs, and a Rhino. What am I missing out on besides Fearless? AP4? Massed Bolter attacks clear hordes just fine, and Counter Attack means I don't need to charge if I don't want to, because without charging Berserker Marines are just Marines with Pistols. 2 points less is buying me the more flexible unit.
3. Berserker Marines therefore end up too expensive to be used as a sacrificial lamb, compared to the Marines where I can make them cheap or not.

Don't forget zerkers have furious charge

Jonesyjones wrote:
Don't forget zerkers have furious charge

I already included the Banner for MoK units into the cost above, which grants Furious Charge.

Fair enough.

Well the options are using the zerkers just for the hell of it ... It using the models for the options you described above.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 jackyratos wrote:
Put them in rhinos.
Turn 1 : move 12", then 6".
Turn 2 : disembark, move 6", screen with the rhinos.
Turn 3: charge.
Of course you will loose rhinos and zerks turns 1&2 but not all armies can take 40 berzerkers in their line, in particular with fnp (due to the tithe in damonkin).

That said, Vanilla MOK Marines would do the same job and add a better shooting element too. Just because it's Khorne doesn't mean you ALWAYS have to charge. Hell, you don't always want to to charge.

Some blasphemes stuff going on in this thread...

Not blasphemous whatsoever.
1. Buying CCW's and MoK for Vanilla Marines keeps them cheaper than Berserkers. All you miss out on is Fearless and Furious Charge, the latter of which isn't as important thanks to having Bolters and Melta Guns.
2. Those saved points give more room to buy sacrificial units like Bloodletters and Cultists.
3. The Vanilla Marines manage to get more benefit from the Tithe chart in the first place.

The issue is "what to do with 40 zerkers?", not "who's best assault CSM?"
I like khorne space marines (and run them) for the reasons you have listed. But it is not the point here.
Anyway, "fearless" is costless! and WS5 is very effective.
If only they were cheaper or A2, or both....!

a bit off topic, sorry...but where are all these extra formations? I was a bit disapointed when kharn diden't make the KHORNE codex.

How exactly did Kharn, Karanak and Skarbrand manage to not be in the khorne book?

 dan2026 wrote:
How exactly did Kharn, Karanak and Skarbrand manage to not be in the khorne book?

They don't fit the fluff the KDK. Its not just "khorne the army", KDK is specifically fanatics trying to gain khorne favors in anyway possible. None of those special characters fit that fluff

I'd never run bezerkers ever imho no matter what GW does plague marines will always be better

doing a bit of research and in the process of obtaining the Blood Oath Book

the fist of Khorne - 20 zerkers in a claw for 1st turn assault from reserve apparently.

Now thats more like it