Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So raw a Orca and Manta are super heavy vehicles first and flyers, hover, transport second. Meaning they follow all rules for super heavy vehicles? Meaning that a hovering orca/manta can thunderblitz?

It seems poorly written at a glance, but I believe that super-heavy flyers only use the super-heavy vehicle rules for shooting, vehicle damage, catastrophic damage and transports, which does not include thunderblitz.

Can you back that up with rules? I can page 94 then for flyers page 84 and transports on page 80 it nowhere specifies being a super heavy flyer. That is implied. So how can you say that it is a super heavy flyer and not a super heavy vehicle? Look at the hammerhead it is a Vehicle (tank, skimmer) so how can you say that it was not intended to be a super heavy vehicle?

The different types of vehicle are: Chariot, Fast, Flyer, Heavy, Hover, Open-topped, Skimmer, Tank, Transport, Walker, Super-heavy vehicle, Super-heavy Walker and Super-heavy Flyer . These types can be combined to define, for example, a Fast Skimmer or an Open-topped Walker, in which case, the vehicle has all of the rules for all of its types.
- Type, Vehicles, Unit Types

While the above does grant permission to use all of the Rules for the Types listed on the profile, keep in mind how old the Imperial Armour 3 book actually is. It wasn't even made for 6th Edition let alone 7th, so there will always be something that 'breaks' when applying the strict Rule as Written to a book this old. In this case the Unit Type listed comes from an era before 'super-heavy flyers' where separate from 'super-heavy vehicles,' and no opponent is going to allow one to make an exploit out of this fact. So while technically correct that it has access to Rules it clearly isn't meant to have access to, there is nothing to gain from this technicality.

I don't even put it on the pile of 'bad Rule Interactions' because it clearly is a situation of the old rules simply being old....

So then by your quote why cant it be a super heavy vehicle: flyer, hover, transport? Because super heavy flyer is in the quote? It needs more ground than that in my opinion

Ahh I see you added more

IA3 2nd ed is a lot newer Jinx....

In nosferatus defense in the first taros campaign the orca/ manta were in fact super-heavy flyers. So how can you say the change was not intentional?

Imperial Armour Volume Three, second edition, was released in 2013 and I thought it contained Rules for 5th Edition Tau.
Or maybe I am just tired and thinking crazy things, as reviewing the book again it doesn't seem to have the Rule-mismatches I originally thought it had... still old though, just not as old as I thought.

What I really am annoyed at is Forge-Worlds FAQ page 404'ing every time I try and find their Errata....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
TheBoy,
Do note the 'Apocalypse' tag on these Units, technically they are not Warhammer 40k approved as they are using the old Apocalypse Rule-set.
I do not have those on hand, to research what 6th edition Apocalypse has to say about Super Heavy Flyers, so I can not comment on that.

I cant see an errata for IA3 2nd Ed on the FW website under downloads. Odd. COuld have sworn there was one.

There was, it got forgotten when they updated the site.

We should be getting an AI3 third edition around the end of the year/next year according to a few Forge World accounts.

Though take that with a grain of salt.

 Nilok wrote:
There was, it got forgotten when they updated the site.

We should be getting an AI3 third edition around the end of the year/next year according to a few Forge World accounts.

Though take that with a grain of salt.

That won't be IA3, it will be IA14. There won't be any IA3 re-release, AFAIK.

Imperial Armour: Apocalypse (the new ed) has the final rules for all Tau current super-heavies - including a formation for Tiger Sharks. IA3 (2nd ed) rules are for Tau 6th codex

Not sure if this of any help but just checked the rules for the thunderhawk gunship. It's listed as "superheavy flyer (hover, transport)"

I always thought there has always been superheavy fliers since FW made the mauarder bomber which was before any Tau stuff, so I find I a bit odd they gave the manta and orca the superheavy rule unless its by design.

The Orca and Manta are both listed as Lords of War on the FW LOW list and explained of location.

I was kind enough to cross reference all the books. The orca and manta are in: ia3, ia apoc 1st, ia apoc 2nd, ia 3 2nd, and then finally ia apoc(for 5th-6th ed rules; so kind of 3rd-ish). Ia 3 and all apocs list it as a SH-flyer, ia 3-2 lists it as a SHV: flyer. IA apoc for 5th-6th is the most resent book(based on it being the only one with hull points, but Apoc in 5th had super heavy flyers as a separate entity.

Now we are left with 2 possibilities:
1) accept the rules as shv:flyer, etc and everything works fine(and OP: yes you can thunderblitz as a super heavy vehicle (skimmer, fast)
2) accept only the RAW for the most recent publication, in which there are simply no rules for super heavy flyer(hover).

1 is what we should be using(cant look up fw faqs at the moment, but does the faq for apoc tell us what to do with super heavy flyer?)

Besides, Thunderblitz makes sense for a manta. It lands on the enemy.