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Just had a game with this list against my friends Grey Knights and was tabled in turn 6, never beaten him and it's starting to get old now lol

CAD
Farseer w/ singing spear (in WG for T6 3+Sv Protection)
Illic Nightspear, Warlord (in DR)

5x Wraithguard

5x Rangers
2x3 Jetbikes

Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ brightlances

3x War Walkers w/ SL, EML, Spirit Stones
3x Shadow Weavers

Wraithknight w/ heavy wraithcannons, 2 SL

Aspect Host

+1 BS

6x Fire Dragon inc. Exarch w/ fire pike in Wave Serpent w/ TL SL, SC, holo-fields, spirit stones

5x Warp Spiders inc. Exarch w/ TL Death spinner

5x Dark Reapers w/ Starswarm and Starshot missiles inc. Exarch w/ Starswarm and Starshot missile

Can't remember everything for my friends list but was roughly this

Nemesis Strike Force

Liberian w/ ML3, Domina liber Daemonica

2 x 10 terminators w/ 2 psycannons, ?xhalberds, ?xforce swords

Nemesis Dreadknight w/ heavy incinerator, heavy psycannon, Great-sword
Nemesis Dreadknight w/ Gatling Psilencer, heavy psycannon, Great-sword

Cerastus Knight Castigator
Kaldor Draigo

Draigo and the Liberian were in the 2 10 man squads

Managed to kill a Dreadknight then got caught in close combat in turn 3 by everything but the Castigator

By the end I managed to kill the other Dreadknight and 7 terminators

Any advice

Let's see what we can do to those stuck-up, "Emprah's Best" shall we?

Do you own other models besides those listed?

thegrutton wrote:
Farseer w/ singing spear (in WG for T6 3+Sv Protection)
Illic Nightspear, Warlord (in DR)

What powers do you use? Fate or Div? Illic seems awfully pricey for a ranger buff, who can kill one model a turn. I would toss him for another whole unit of elves, Hawks or a full Spider crew.

thegrutton wrote:
5x Wraithguard

Perhaps upgrade to D-sctyhes? Do they have a transport? Foot slogging Wguard aren't very effective, given the mismatch in ranged fire you're facing.

thegrutton wrote:
5x Rangers
2x3 Jetbikes

Crimson Hunter Exarch w/ brightlances

3x War Walkers w/ SL, EML, Spirit Stones

Your War Walkers can be more optimal:
a. Split one WarW off from the trio, as you have the Heavy Support slot open, so run a pair and a single. This is general MSU strategy, making your opponent split his fire to kill more of your stuff, and allowing you to split or concentrate your fire power.
b. The WarWs' role is tank buster or Armor 2 anti-Infantry, so the EML and ScatLas are weak sauce. The 7e Vehicle Damage Table is kind to vehicles in that you can't Destroy closed-top things in one pop, unless your gun is AP2 or better (make his DreadKnights take Invuln Saves). So, I'd switch to dual Bright Lances, and no upgrades. WWs die so easily, I consider points on upgrades not so good. Plus, with Battle Focus, you ought to be able to mitigate their fragility with better use of terrain. Also, more AP2 versus your buddy's GK is going to give you more punch.
...
Actually go dual Star Cannons on each WW. Considering his lotsa 2+ infantry, that'd be better to defeat him.

thegrutton wrote:
3x Shadow Weavers

... Shadow Weaver is a gun ... are these NightSpinners? Formation not in the book? Derp.

thegrutton wrote:
Wraithknight w/ heavy wraithcannons, 2 SL

I bet he dies in h2h to GK HammerHanded Force Weps? Try him with the Shield. The additional 5+ save can really extend his longevity. Prescience is better than Guide, so cast it on the WK when he's going to tangle with DreadKnights or the Cerastus.

thegrutton wrote:
Aspect Host
6x Fire Dragon inc. Exarch w/ fire pike in Wave Serpent w/ TL SL, SC, holo-fields, spirit stones
5x Warp Spiders inc. Exarch w/ TL Death spinner
5x Dark Reapers w/ Starswarm and Starshot missiles inc. Exarch w/ Starswarm and Starshot missile

It's only a few points, and matches the newer model, but the Spider Exarch doesn't need TL with his Ballistic Skill 6. I use 9 spiders. Also, small 5 dude units are used by a lot of better players than me, but I like the better durability. Remember to keep Flicker Field in mind, and use it well.

The Fire Dragons, WK, & CrimsonH, ought to be enough to beat the Cerastus Knight Castigator (unless he's a *really* a gnarly beast in h2h, I don't know his rules). Ignore him, until you can have the WK thump him. That's why I like the Glaive/SS WK.

WaveSerpent: I'd skip the stones and Holos. If your Warlord trait comes up Conqueror of Cities (my favorite) then use Cover. Plus, the in-built, free, Serpent Shield will knock most hits to a Glance, negating the need for Stones. Don't ever fire it, until the FireDs have disembarked and done their job. Its range is too short to cut-out the Shield's defensive mechanism.

Warlord Trait: Try for the Reserve bump on Strategic table so the WarWs & CrimsonH get better outflank/arrival times. Or Conqueror of Cities.

Battle Field: What's it look like? Got enough LOS blocking terrain? Elves and tau greatly benefit from having lotsa hidey holes, with Battle Focus. If your table lacks, then he has an advantage. Cheap fixes are to make small pieces of terrain, 4 to 6 to 8 inches long of styrofoam, insulation foam or foamcore 'walls'. Use acrylic paint only (primer will melt/warp it). Have them be 2 or 3 inches in height, mounted on masonite.

Never mind all the ork bikes and such, but look at the wall in center frame:



That's insulation foam, cheap acrylic paint (hobby store stuff, not GW expensiveness) and glued to masonite. I used a hobby knife to cut and really fine grade sand paper to round the edges. The piece behind it styrofoam, with some GW ruins bits added. It looks like multi-stone wall stuff, pre19th century.

Missions played? Mix?

How long have you played 40k?

There is an Edit button on the forum. It's a pain though.

I played 18 games (Dark Angels, years ago) before I won my first game. 40k is a tough game to learn and play well.

Cut your games to 1500. ... er, wait. How many points is the list you posted? It looks 2000 or 1850 ...

There's a concept in 40k called 'pushing' your list. Adding in upgrades and fat that don't contribute to an efficient list. Often, a player will have only a solid 1250 of models, but can 'push' their list with many upgrades to 1500, whereas their opponent has an efficient number of models to be at 1500 (or whatever) without upgrades. Basically, it's more shots per points efficiency.

I would pare down and your opponent will have to pare down too. It'll even the experience level of play for you. So, play at a lower points level for a bit.

While Illic is a resilient Warlord, he's 140 points of kill One Model A Turn. I recommend shelving him for now. Those points on more Spiders or Hawks or Reapers could easily be killing 5 to 6 muhreens a turn.

Shelve the WraithGuard too. They are a tough unit to field well. I tried two codexes ago (and they haven't really changed) and ... well, stick with the FireDs in the Serpent.

Your buddy should realize, that if you're always losing, it's no fun. And a good friend will make those adjustments. Try a 1000 point game or two. And, a dozen games in a year is too few to get a steady feel for the game. Can't your bring your toys to your military post? I figure the British military ought to have a big chubby for 40k and would even sponsor having a good table in the ... PX? Recreation Room? Whatever you limeys call the Off-Duty place to hang out.


Best Regards,
(bloody yankee, traitor to the Crown)
Brother Erekose

We've already spoken about home making a softer list so I can get as much experience as him before we play more heavy hitting lists

Unfortunately I can't bring them with me, I'm navy and there's not much room onboard to set up a table where you wouldn't get constant interruptions or the "cool kids" giving you grief

Thanks for the help I have basically nothing but star cannons where they can be used lol and will look at trying to fit a transport in for the wraiths as I use them as a bodyguard for the farseer, might look at a falcon for the Fire Dragons, maybe, dunno lol all part of the fun

thegrutton wrote:
the "cool kids" giving you grief.

People that act like this aren't worth changing your life over. They will always find something else to chirp about, so do you.

Yeah true