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Assuming forgeworld is allowed (ITC format) can a gladius strike force with capt and chaplain get infernum pattern razorback for free?

Only if the datasheet for the infernum razorback specifically allows it.

Or the TO says it's OK.

If it is its own separate datasheet/army list entry then no, unless otherwise stated - the Gladius special rules specifically refer to ordinary razorbacks.

If it is provided as an additional turret option for an ordinary razorback then, subject to the specific wording, I would say possibly yes.

I want to say yes, as it is just a Razorback variant in all other situations.

barnowl wrote:
I want to say yes, as it is just a Razorback variant in all other situations.

It is not listed in the Gladius Strike force nor is the Gladius Strike force listed in the Infernum Pattern dataslate - therefore the answer is: No.

Same applies to e.g. the Deimos Predator Executioner - you can't just use him in one of the Formations including Predators, he is not a "Predator". Think of it more like "Terminators and Assault Terminators" - they're just "different weapon options on the same chassis", but they're still entirely different dataslates.

Per the rules, no, because you will NEVER see any reference to Forgeworld models within a GW codex rule entry.

If Forgeworld were to ever get around to making a FAQ for IA2, the odds are incredibly high that it would be allowed.

Until such time, as with all things, find out if your local group is ok with it.

Near as I can tell it's a razorback that pays 10(?) pts for a meltagun. If so as long as the appropriate point difference is paid for I doubt most people will complain.

You can only field units and models that are named in the formation. So no Loth in a conclave and no fancy FW transports in SM formations.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
There could be a FW update that could make it happen.

I've asked FW a few times about things like this. They say they are not planning on issuing any updates like this, but that doesn't mean they'll never do so, and in the mean time we can use whatever house rules we want.

As if I needed their permission for house rules?

 Happyjew wrote:
Near as I can tell it's a razorback that pays 10(?) pts for a meltagun. If so as long as the appropriate point difference is paid for I doubt most people will complain.

I would mind. Those formations give huge bonuses for the cost of being specific. Being able to swap them for something else defeats this..

oldzoggy wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Near as I can tell it's a razorback that pays 10(?) pts for a meltagun. If so as long as the appropriate point difference is paid for I doubt most people will complain.

I would mind. Those formations give huge bonuses for the cost of being specific. Being able to swap them for something else defeats this..

Razorback is what, 55 pts? The Infernum pattern basically replaces the twin-linked Heavy Bolter with a (non twin-linked) meltagun for 10 pts. Yes against some armies a meltagun will be better than a TL-lascannon or Lascannon/TL-plasmagun. However, I seriously doubt most people (not everyone) would complain. I'm not saying he can take the Infernum for free. Just has to pay the 10 pts to "upgrade" a normal Razorback.

 Happyjew wrote:

oldzoggy wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Near as I can tell it's a razorback that pays 10(?) pts for a meltagun. If so as long as the appropriate point difference is paid for I doubt most people will complain.

I would mind. Those formations give huge bonuses for the cost of being specific. Being able to swap them for something else defeats this..

Razorback is what, 55 pts? The Infernum pattern basically replaces the twin-linked Heavy Bolter with a (non twin-linked) meltagun for 10 pts. Yes against some armies a meltagun will be better than a TL-lascannon or Lascannon/TL-plasmagun. However, I seriously doubt most people (not everyone) would complain. I'm not saying he can take the Infernum for free. Just has to pay the 10 pts to "upgrade" a normal Razorback.

But where does it stop?

I mean a Deimos Predator Executioner is a Predator with a Plasma Destroyer. Just pay the 35pts for the PD upgrade.
And a Vindicator Laser Destroyer is just a Vindicator with a big Laser and one special rule for that, right?
That Mortis Dreadnought? Just a Dreadnought with the Helical upgrade.
Oh - and that Deredeo is basically just a Mortis Dreadnought with better Autocannons and a shield.

nekooni wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

oldzoggy wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Near as I can tell it's a razorback that pays 10(?) pts for a meltagun. If so as long as the appropriate point difference is paid for I doubt most people will complain.

I would mind. Those formations give huge bonuses for the cost of being specific. Being able to swap them for something else defeats this..

Razorback is what, 55 pts? The Infernum pattern basically replaces the twin-linked Heavy Bolter with a (non twin-linked) meltagun for 10 pts. Yes against some armies a meltagun will be better than a TL-lascannon or Lascannon/TL-plasmagun. However, I seriously doubt most people (not everyone) would complain. I'm not saying he can take the Infernum for free. Just has to pay the 10 pts to "upgrade" a normal Razorback.

But where does it stop?

I mean a Deimos Predator Executioner is a Predator with a Plasma Destroyer. Just pay the 35pts for the PD upgrade.
And a Vindicator Laser Destroyer is just a Vindicator with a big Laser and one special rule for that, right?
That Mortis Dreadnought? Just a Dreadnought with the Helical upgrade.
Oh - and that Deredeo is basically just a Mortis Dreadnought with better Autocannons and a shield.

Not too mention the schmancy drop pod for dreadnoughts that grants shrouded.

So, in other words, it's just more Anti-Forgeworld hate?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
So, in other words, it's just more Anti-Forgeworld hate?

really, as a mod and in the rules lawyering board? the raw is clear, the TOs probably all agree and you make such a pointless inflammatory post contributing nothing? nice.

1. I'm not a mod, DCM stands for Dakka Contributing Member
2. I already did contribute earlier, agreeing with the RAW.
3. You'll note the post above mine (as well as the somewhat flippant tone in your post above that one) was already displaying the usual anti-FW bias that I simply called it as is.
4. Rule #1

Let's stick to the discussion of the rules, rather than poking at other posters, folks.

nekooni wrote:
I mean a Deimos Predator Executioner is a Predator with a Plasma Destroyer. Just pay the 35pts for the PD upgrade.
And a Vindicator Laser Destroyer is just a Vindicator with a big Laser and one special rule for that, right?
That Mortis Dreadnought? Just a Dreadnought with the Helical upgrade.
Oh - and that Deredeo is basically just a Mortis Dreadnought with better Autocannons and a shield.

That all sounds fine to me. All of the various types of Dreadnoughts are Dreadnoughts... so if something allows Dreadnoughts, I would be perfectly fine with any of the various types of Dreadnought that are available to that army.

This ultimately comes back to GW's habit of using the same name for both a generic name and a specific unit... and since they refuse to clarify it, I'll go with the most permissive option rather than insist that my opponent shouldn't be able to use his pretty toys based on a technical vague spot.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
So, in other words, it's just more Anti-Forgeworld hate?

No, the super detachments have massive benefits and require very specific units being taken.

Opening up those massive benefits and also letting people take whatever they want is something that shouldn't be taken lightly.

Hiwpi I'd allow it. It really isnt game breaking if you have 1

If someone wanted to run 10 of them, I'd probably call shenanigans

Considering that you already get 300+ points worth of free Rhinos, Drop-Pods and Razorbacks with the Gladius Formation and that these transports are undercosted already, I'd be disinclined to smile on ordering special weapons off the menu.

 Stephanius wrote:
Considering that you already get 300+ points worth of free Rhinos, Drop-Pods and Razorbacks with the Gladius Formation and that these transports are undercosted already, I'd be disinclined to smile on ordering special weapons off the menu.

You still have to pay for upgrades to the chassis, so I am bit meh over it being an issue. I mean you are already getting a ridiculous points advantage.

 Stephanius wrote:
Considering that you already get 300+ points worth of free Rhinos, Drop-Pods and Razorbacks with the Gladius Formation and that these transports are undercosted already, I'd be disinclined to smile on ordering special weapons off the menu.

Dark angels can get 1100pts of free razorbacks in a 2000pt list