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If they participated in the Great Crusade, but had been purged before Corax was found, how long did each one actually serve for?

I know they were found at different times, so each one served for a different length, but what's the maximum period of time each Legion could have served for? Are we talking centuries, or possibly just a dozen or so years? I'm interested as it's possibly one of the only concrete pieces of informaton about them we have.

Hierophant wrote:
If they participated in the Great Crusade, but had been purged before Corax was found, how long did each one actually serve for?

I know they were found at different times, so each one served for a different length, but what's the maximum period of time each Legion could have served for? Are we talking centuries, or possibly just a dozen or so years? I'm interested as it's possibly one of the only concrete pieces of informaton about them we have.

If you're referring to Corax's meeting with the Emperor, the Emperor was not talking about the missing legions. Corax was the 18th primarch found. He was talking about the one missing primarch and Alpharius.

We also know that all of the primarchs were at least aware of each other, meaning the two didn't disappear until after Alpharius was found. Given that the first missing primarch was the third legion found, I imagine the first served for over a century and a half and the second served for around 20 years, maybe less.

jareddm wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
If they participated in the Great Crusade, but had been purged before Corax was found, how long did each one actually serve for?

I know they were found at different times, so each one served for a different length, but what's the maximum period of time each Legion could have served for? Are we talking centuries, or possibly just a dozen or so years? I'm interested as it's possibly one of the only concrete pieces of informaton about them we have.

If you're referring to Corax's meeting with the Emperor, the Emperor was not talking about the missing legions. Corax was the 18th primarch found. He was talking about the one missing primarch and Alpharius.

We also know that all of the primarchs were at least aware of each other, meaning the two didn't disappear until after Alpharius was found. Given that the first missing primarch was the third legion found, I imagine the first served for over a century and a half and the second served for around 20 years, maybe less.

The legion numbers do not coincide with the order in which the primarchs were rediscovered, otherwise the Luna Wolves would have been the I Legion.

 Orblivion wrote:

jareddm wrote:

Hierophant wrote:
If they participated in the Great Crusade, but had been purged before Corax was found, how long did each one actually serve for?

I know they were found at different times, so each one served for a different length, but what's the maximum period of time each Legion could have served for? Are we talking centuries, or possibly just a dozen or so years? I'm interested as it's possibly one of the only concrete pieces of informaton about them we have.

If you're referring to Corax's meeting with the Emperor, the Emperor was not talking about the missing legions. Corax was the 18th primarch found. He was talking about the one missing primarch and Alpharius.

We also know that all of the primarchs were at least aware of each other, meaning the two didn't disappear until after Alpharius was found. Given that the first missing primarch was the third legion found, I imagine the first served for over a century and a half and the second served for around 20 years, maybe less.

The legion numbers do not coincide with the order in which the primarchs were rediscovered, otherwise the Luna Wolves would have been the I Legion.

No one is saying that the legion numbers coincide. The official primarch discovery list is known.
Horus
Leman Russ
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Alpharius

It was after the Lion was found (In descent of angels, it is mentioned that Jonson has 19 brothers). One had also gone by the time Corax was found, but another future missing Primarch would be discovered after him. To go into my personal theory, many people seem to think that they were destroyed by the Space Wolves, but if we use Occam's Razor, then it is more reasonable to assume that this is referring to either the conflict the Wolves had with the Dark Angels or the Night of the Wolf, where the Space Wolves fought the World Eaters. Now, upon doing some research into this, I found this:
"Imperial records state that two Primarchs came to Angron, both claiming to have been sent by the Emperor, intending to convince him to stop the dangerous practice. The first arrived soon after Angron joined his Legion after being unwillingly rescued from Nuceria. The second would not come until almost a century later. But by then, it would be too late to stop the tragedy that had already begun to unfold."
So, after reading this, I came up with this theory: the World Eaters butchered both legions and their Primarchs and the Emperor covered it up, because of how effective the World Eaters were, even though they were both savage and dangerous. Also, it's sort of the lesser of two evils: allowing the World Eaters to walk free, but using them in a carefully controlled manner and turning them loose only when absolute
slaughter is the only option is much better than destroying them, which would be so costly that it would tear the Imperium that the Emperor tried so hard to build apart. You don't want people who are notorious for butchering entire worlds in less than 24 hours to be your enemy.

So, after reading this, I came up with this theory: the World Eaters butchered both legions and their Primarchs and the Emperor covered it up, because of how effective the World Eaters were, even though they were both savage and dangerous. Also, it's sort of the lesser of two evils: allowing the World Eaters to walk free, but using them in a carefully controlled manner and turning them loose only when absolute
slaughter is the only option is much better than destroying them, which would be so costly that it would tear the Imperium's apart. You don't want people who are notorious for butchering entire worlds in less than 24 hours to be your enemy.

Thats quite an interesting theory actually.
However I think it was implied in other books that the Emperor sanctioned their destruction due to corruption or some other event where they couldnt be allowed to continue (perhaps wildly unstable geneseed or psychic corruption etc.).

It is all but spelled out that Russ killed off one legion and the other was corruption/lost.

@jareddm

The official primarch discovery list is known.
Horus
Leman Russ
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Alpharius

Where did you come across this list? I'm curious to know the source(s).


@Macharius:

I actually started a thread about the lost Primarchs and their Legions on a different forum (i.e. not here on dakkadakka) where it was not only agreed that people can interpret such things how they will, but also that things Russ killing of one of the Lost Legions may be strongly hinted at but could never be taken as solid fact. But if you personally want to take that as fact, I'm pretty sure that it's referenced somewhere that the Legion he supposedly destroyed was the 2nd Legion. I think it was also hinted that the other was 'lost' by some description (and not destroyed), hence why the two legions are, at least in my experience, often referred to as "The Lost and The Purged".

20 legions = 20 roman legions.

2 roman legions were destroyed and never reformed thus, only 18 space marine legions exist

IllumiNini wrote:


Where did you come across this list? I'm curious to know the source(s).

Hi Illuminini

It's from Laurie Goulding, a BL editor

Linky

http://z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=136&st=45

 natpri771 wrote:
It was after the Lion was found (In descent of angels, it is mentioned that Jonson has 19 brothers). One had also gone by the time Corax was found, but another future missing Primarch would be discovered after him. To go into my personal theory, many people seem to think that they were destroyed by the Space Wolves, but if we use Occam's Razor, then it is more reasonable to assume that this is referring to either the conflict the Wolves had with the Dark Angels or the Night of the Wolf, where the Space Wolves fought the World Eaters. Now, upon doing some research into this, I found this:
"Imperial records state that two Primarchs came to Angron, both claiming to have been sent by the Emperor, intending to convince him to stop the dangerous practice. The first arrived soon after Angron joined his Legion after being unwillingly rescued from Nuceria. The second would not come until almost a century later. But by then, it would be too late to stop the tragedy that had already begun to unfold."
So, after reading this, I came up with this theory: the World Eaters butchered both legions and their Primarchs and the Emperor covered it up, because of how effective the World Eaters were, even though they were both savage and dangerous. Also, it's sort of the lesser of two evils: allowing the World Eaters to walk free, but using them in a carefully controlled manner and turning them loose only when absolute
slaughter is the only option is much better than destroying them, which would be so costly that it would tear the Imperium that the Emperor tried so hard to build apart. You don't want people who are notorious for butchering entire worlds in less than 24 hours to be your enemy.

I think the tragedy unfolding actually refers to the corruption of the world eaters rather than destruction of two legions.

jareddm wrote:
No one is saying that the legion numbers coincide. The official primarch discovery list is known.
Horus
Leman Russ
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Ferrus Manus
Fulgrim
Vulkan
Rogal Dorn
Roboute Guilliman
Magnus the Red
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Perturabo
Mortarion
Lorgar
Jaghatai Khan
Konrad Curze
Angron
Corax
[DELETED FROM IMPERIAL RECORDS]
Omegon

Sauce?

The Legions were not destroyed. I'm dig out the book and passages tonight, but it's mentioned how 'convenient it was the ultramarines expanded in numbers when the one Legion disappeared.'

foto69man wrote:The Legions were not destroyed. I'm dig out the book and passages tonight, but it's mentioned how 'convenient it was the ultramarines expanded in numbers when the one Legion disappeared.'

You're taking that quote completely out of context. It was stated by a pair of Word Bearer grunts, who wouldn't have any information on the actual topic, concerning their most hated rival. We know why the Ultramarine legion expanded. It's been stated in codices and in Tempest. The fact that they were drawing from so many worlds, had great geneseed retention rates, and operated on an efficient and well-managed logistical system. The Word Bearers talking about it is the equivalent of a bunch of people saying about their neighbor, "look at that guy with all his money, and just after that recent big prison break. I bet he's the crime boss behind it!"

Selym wrote:Sauce?

Two posts above you.

They were gone by the time Alpharius got recruited. So they were only around for about 150 years.

So how long was it before the first primarch discovered (Horus?) until the Heresey? Like 200 years? Doesn't seem like a whole lot of time to wage a war of reclamation of the galaxy.

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
So how long was it before the first primarch discovered (Horus?) until the Heresey? Like 200 years? Doesn't seem like a whole lot of time to wage a war of reclamation of the galaxy.

IIRC it was said in First Heretic that the Great Crusade was 213 years. It's measured from the Emperor's reconquest of the moon to Isstvan III.

Yeah, it's not a very long time given the massive amount of territory conquered. But keep in mind at the peak of the Crusade there were 4,287 separate Expeditionary Fleets according to the HH books.