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As far as I can see the game mechanics have nothing to do with fluff, be it with orks or space marines or somebody else (excluding normal humans). But let's try to imagine what the orks would look like if they were made in adjustment to fluff. My thoughts: first, normal ork boyz would be S4. An ork is larger, taller(when not hunching) and much stronger than a human, therefore he has to be S4, as S3 is the normal level of strength that the average human/eldar/tau can achieve without intense training. A powerlifter or stongman (in game terms) would be S4/5. Orks are roughly equal to mid-high level powerlifters. Second - orks have next to no vital organs and have extreme regenerative capabilities. That could be shown by some form of FNP - 6+ for boys, 5+ for nobz, and, maybe, 4+ for warbosses.Cybork bodies could give either +1 th FNP or allow to reroll it (nice either way, althou there must be a limit, like no better FNP than 4+). Next - stats in general.Orks get bigger and stronger (and better at fighting) as they progress through the ranks of their tribe. For a boy WS4 S4 T4 would be fine, for a nob it had to be WS5 S5 T5, and a Warboss would be WS6 S6 T6. Since orks have no force fields to get invuls they rely on sheer strength and toughness in fights. They are realy hard to kill, despite having shity armour. Combining high physical stats with FNP would just fit the fluff - alien killing machines, that feel no pain and are extreemly hard to kill by normal means. Just my thoughts, feel free to disagree and tell us what orks should look like if you adjust the rules to fluff.

I can certainly see the argument for giving Orks S4, though I'd be wary since it's all just part of the stat inflation (or power creep if you prefer) that we're not too keen of. I like the idea of army wide feel no pain though, showing how resilient Orks are.

I'd like a decent Mob rule. The current one is pretty rubbish. I can't really remember the old one but I believe it was better.

+1 S on the charge would be nice.

El Torro wrote:
I can certainly see the argument for giving Orks S4, though I'd be wary since it's all just part of the stat inflation (or power creep if you prefer) that we're not too keen of. I like the idea of army wide feel no pain though, showing how resilient Orks are.

I'd like a decent Mob rule. The current one is pretty rubbish. I can't really remember the old one but I believe it was better.

+1 S on the charge would be nice.

They already have Furious Charge.

Orks should be S4 because in the fluff they constantly fight SM and around 50/50 win the strength battle, its the SM initiative that usually allows them to slaughter 100,000 Orks each

El Torro wrote:
I can certainly see the argument for giving Orks S4, though I'd be wary since it's all just part of the stat inflation (or power creep if you prefer) that we're not too keen of. I like the idea of army wide feel no pain though, showing how resilient Orks are.

I'd like a decent Mob rule. The current one is pretty rubbish. I can't really remember the old one but I believe it was better.

+1 S on the charge would be nice.

The old one was Ld = number of boyz. 11+ ment Fearless. I could live with the current one if it simply was d6 S4 AP- hits instead of rolling on a god-damn random table.

I think Furious charge adequately represents the strength differences. FnP would be more fitting although this is obtainable now through hq choices.

my biggest concern about fluff vs game mechanics is that orks love fighting, they live to fight. Why would a race that has this as their genetic defining aspect run from a fight? Yet my orks run away as often as they stand and if in combat they tend to lose first round assaults due to numbers and poor initiative and tend to run on result modifiers. I think the old mob rule and bosspole rule with the existing codex would go a long way to balancing orks better.

Boss pole should let you add or subtract one from the mob rule chart. The only issue I have with orks is boss nobz stats and the point values for their vehicles.

Give boss nobz 3w and ld8
Trukks drop to 23 points
Looted wagons drop to 23 points
Battlew wagons drop to 90 points
Gorkanaught and morkanaught gain one hullpoint and become superheavy walkers
Deffdredd gains +1 attack and 'ere we go!
Killa kans become 45 points each
Killkannon is only 20 points to upgrade

If you make these changes, orks would actually have the numbers to make up for their inherent weaknesses, and boss nobz would look and act like the next in line for warboss.

 Nithaniel wrote:
I think Furious charge adequately represents the strength differences. FnP would be more fitting although this is obtainable now through hq choices.

my biggest concern about fluff vs game mechanics is that orks love fighting, they live to fight. Why would a race that has this as their genetic defining aspect run from a fight? Yet my orks run away as often as they stand and if in combat they tend to lose first round assaults due to numbers and poor initiative and tend to run on result modifiers. I think the old mob rule and bosspole rule with the existing codex would go a long way to balancing orks better.

Orks love to fight, not be killed.