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I always get the impression they're akin to 1980s-era technology - floppy disks, 64k of memory, monochrome displays, etc. Of course, that may just be the visual aesthetic, seeing as the game first came out in the 80s, but it'd also illustrate well how far technology has declined if true.

Yes, they travel through the galaxy on spaceships, but we went to the moon with infinitely less computational power than you have in your current phone, and the Imperium largely achieves it with organic navigators anyway, and machine spirits and servitors use partially organic computing power. I'm strictly asking how advanced the mechanical computers are (STCs aside, which is copied tech),

I imagine Hereteks walking around with the equivalent of iPads, while the AdMech drag around briefcase-sized laptops hooked up to car batteries.

I always imagined they were very good computers but they still use old CLI because ease of use isn't much of a concern for the Imperium of Man.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I always imagined they were very good computers but they still use old CLI because ease of use isn't much of a concern for the Imperium of Man.

I think it's less ease of use, and more that people learn technology in a ritual fashion, and this is how it's always been done. Who are they to question why? It's like the Bible being written in Latin, and only understandable by the educated or priesthood. Nobody thought to make it easier or more accessible, because the entire point was that it was something percieved as so complex and important that its form must mirror its function.

Technology is holy, and by nature it must be arcane, and difficult to use and understand. Incorporating a GUI is likely as unimaginable as translating the Bible into English was.

I've always imagined Imperial computing tech to be far better than modern day versions, if woeful behind what should have been achieved in 30 to 40 thousand years. There are several issues though:

1 - A typical data-slate may be 10 times more powerful than an ipad, with massive storage capabilities; but most users outside the AdMech priesthood, have no inkling of how to utilise those capabilities (or even that they exist). Consequently you may have large pieces of factory machinery that are manually operated sitting next to a tiny data-slate that has more than enough processing capability to replace the operator, but is only used to store the manual.

2 - All imperial tech is based on the STC designs. The STC designs were created, not as a catalogue of all the best tech from the Dark Age of Technology, but rather as tools for colonists on frontier world with no infrastructure and little to no back-up. Imperial technology reflect this in that it's first priority is not efficiency, power or aesthetics, its robustness & (to an extent) ease of use. This is why it looks so clunky & '80s'. That data-slate may look like it was designed to double as a bludgeon, but it will survive the wear & tear of hundreds of years, while the i-pad might not last 1.

3 - The incomplete nature of the STC catalogue & the dogmatic adherence to it, (not to mention the absolutely terrible nature of internal communication of the AdMech), is often going to mean mismatched technology & not having the right tool for a given job. So there is a lot of bodging; A LOT. Plasma Reactor run by 3 strung together cogitators originally designed for accounting, running agricultural machinery & weather prediction respectively, with several technicians hand translating between 2 of them. Totally a thing that would happen.

It's a testament to the STC system and the bloody minded determination of the AdMech that anything gets achieved at all.

Xenology mentions something called "Logic Engine" (or something like that). I don't have the book on hand, but what i remember is that it had a wide control over the base, but like every tool with Machine Spirit, it was temperamental, and the inquisitor noted that he did not want to operate it and delegated this drudgery to his subordinate. That would suggest that Logic Engines, while advanced, aren't exactly a pinnacle of UI design.

They are still complex enough to run the starships, engage targeting systems, run auspex scans and build holographic images of targets and planets.

Pretty complex stuff really. But you would expect that from 40k years of (semi) advancement.

Very powerful, but unless your a full tech priest your not going to understand it, or even turn the thing on. The most advanced of their kind are ancient relics like all 40k. The computers run starships and all manner of advanced equipment will not be basic.

A more basic data slate could be more user friendly, in the books, officers, marines etc all have them for everyday information and such.

However everything is made to last and your basic tech is built to last decades without need for replacement.

Their computer systems should be incredibly powerful, given that they are all based on the STC from the Dark Age of Technology, the pinnacle of human achievement.

The question should therefore not be how advanced their systems are, but whether humans in 40k still know how to use them effectively. The most advanced computer system in the universe isn't going to do you much good if you don't understand 80% of its functions.

There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

It would be worlds ahead of our technology, even in its decayed state. The simplest servitor would be exponentially more powerful through the use of a human brain.

quote=Alcibiades 665184 8151672 null]There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

Given that they have the technology to fully integrate biological brains into their machines, I'd say their average cogitation engine is what we would label a super-computer.
But that's about as specific as this is really going to get, as they use terms like "Cogitation Machine" to describe computers, and don't even understand what half their terms mean.

 Selym wrote:
Given that they have the technology to fully integrate biological brains into their machines, I'd say their average cogitation engine is what we would label a super-computer.
But that's about as specific as this is really going to get, as they use terms like "Cogitation Machine" to describe computers, and don't even understand what half their terms mean.

Exactly. The human brain is orders of magnitude beyond any computers we have today, and any that we can forsee. Integrating human brains into your computers means you have massive computational power at your disposal.

There are no computers in our sense.

We'd still call them computers. They might not be made of what we are used to computers being made of, but a computer isn't defined by what its made of, its what it does that matters.

1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

3. Have they discovered a working method of quantum-computing?
4. Does the warp affect any of this (what with provable sentient machine spirits in the larger machines, capable of being corrupted, or eating a Princeps' soul)?

 Lone Cat wrote:
1. Does 'Personal Computer' we use today exists in the 40k universe?
2. Many electronical devices in the Imperium (and Admech) are all have skulls attacked to it. (including ones incorporated into Hydra/Wyvern targeting systems) Do they use human brain as CPU or do they also use the same (microtransistor) chips as we do? or are these skulls ornamental? (so to serves as faction symbol)

1) Probably on some planets, but they're almost certainly a luxury item. And the Internet also certainly exists, but it will naturally be limited to individual planets, and likely not be available to everyone.

2) That depends on the device. They do still have inorganic computers, not everything has organic material in it. Nor are their systems entirely organic even when they have components which are. As for the skulls, I imagine they are ornamental(but they could be real on top of that).

Very powerful but almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors and thus being immensely bulky. Its the only way I can explain how they can run a starship yet no one can miniaturize them enough to put any kind of ballistic trajectory calculator on something smaller than a titan (scatter dice)

AtraUnam wrote:
almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors

Source?

AtraUnam wrote:
Very powerful but almost certainly using vacuum tubes instead of transistors and thus being immensely bulky. Its the only way I can explain how they can run a starship yet no one can miniaturize them enough to put any kind of ballistic trajectory calculator on something smaller than a titan (scatter dice)

You do realize that being able to accurately put down fire doesn't mean you never make errors. Modern munitions are scarily accurate but even they have variations. You can never put something exactly where you want it.

Silverthorne 665184 8152077 291597a100aadd814d197af4f4bab3a7.jpg]quote=Alcibiades wrote:
There are no computers in our sense. Their computers are biological. Like their robots (servitors).

Including the data cards that go into Kastelan robots. They're explicitly a mix of biological components and electronics.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's part of the grimdark. The Imperium's robots are lobotomized people (or animals) attached to machines. Like the poor guy stuck in the Ironstrider.

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

I thought I remember (from Rogue Trader) that the biological component was due to the regulation against "thinking" - AI machines. Thus computers have some human regulator built-in to prevent the machine from running amok and turning against humanity.

I have a feeling that 40K tech, besides being hardy enough to last centuries (our CD's only last ~50 years and most modern computers I know of usually die after 5-7 years), they likely don't have moving components, no fans required for heat dissipation and I believe use crystals for data storage and can project holograms. While not as advanced as the Dark Age of Technology, far better than the stuff we have now.

They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Well they probably have futuristic targeting computers, but they also probably have futuristic active counter measures. So maybe it just ends up being a wash.

Baneblades and Titans have targeters. The Shadowsword even has an upgrade to its targeters in the rules.

And ships. They have them too.

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

Are you talking about the crap code of the Dark Mechanicum ?

 godardc wrote:

True. But the biological components also help resist the persistent electronic attack signals / radiation that pervade the entire galaxy. That's also why most combat in the game is between flesh and blook infantry at visual ranges, not drones lobbing cruise missiles at each other.

Are you talking about the crap code of the Dark Mechanicum ?

It's crap because it doesn't really do anything
The DM's scrap code is partly daemonic, isn't it? If so, it could just ignore parts of reality, and infect toasters, augmented brains, your wristwatch and Missingno from Pokémon.

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

 Ignatius wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
They obviously have no computers at all, or they'd use them for targeting systems in their crappy vehicles like we do today!

Why do you assume they aren't using targeting computers?

They aren't as advanced or capable as ours today are at least. An M1 Abrams can hit a Womprat from 1000m while moving over parked cars.

Are you going by fluff, or game mechanics? I'm fairly certain that FoW would not have them that accurate (if they use them, I'm not too familiar).

There's a blog post out there by one of the BL writers, can't find it at the moment, that explains that the computers of M40 are massively advanced, far moreso than anything even imaginable today, but the layers of security required (free-floating scrapcode and killer-AI are a thing) and the general decline of maintenance (like a defrag) means that they aren't particularly efficient in the setting... but would still devour any modern computer in complexity and potential data-manipulation.