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I had this situation arise today.
A 30 man dev Termy unit outflanked in behind a Command unit of LRs.

Because of the rear armor arcs in picture #1 twelve of the Termys could pen the rear arc of the right hand tank



But in pic #2 seventeen could pen the rear of the left hand tank and by extension the right hand tank too



How do you correctly handle this situation bearing in mind wounds/pens go into a pool but some of those pens couldnt actually damage the right hand tank? Me gotz confussed wit it.

PS the die represent the others in the tery unit, I just didnt bother placing them for this example.

Per wound allocation in the BRB, Hits/wounds/penatrations are rolled versus the closer model first until it is removed or there are no more hits to resolve. Any remaining hits are then rolled versus the next model in the unit, etc.. In the case of your example, the closer model is getting those on its rear arc, as determined by which of the models in your unit ar in that arc.

SJ

Hmmm, so is this correct:

Roll 17 devgaunts VS the left hand tank. Add up those hits. Lets say they 50% it and get 25.
25 pen rolls then. Lets say luck is in and they get 5 pens.

Left hand tank is dead, right hand tank takes the last two pens?

But surely those "extra" hits on the right tank should be disguarded as it wasnt in 5 of the devgaunts arc at all? Still confussed me iz.

Hum, complicated scenario, and not one I've really looked at before. Here's some relevant bits:

Shooting at Vehicles, Vehicle Facing and Armour Values, p75 wrote:If a unit has firing models in two or more different facings of a target vehicle (some models in the front and some in the side, for example), shots are resolved separately for each facing.

Damaging Squadrons, p79 wrote:To do this, allocate individual hits, rather than individual Wounds, one at a time, to the closest model in the squadron. Then roll for Armour Penetration against the correct facing (so against the rear armour in close combat) and determine the result of any glancing or penetrating hits. When this has been done, resolve the next hit, and so on, until all hits have been allocated and resolved.

So my interpretation (HIWPI) would be rolling all To Hit rolls together, with differently coloured dice representing the different groups:
(1) Termagants that are in the rear arc of both tanks.
(2) Termagants that are in the rear arc of only the left-hand tank.
(3) Termagants that are in the side arc of both tanks. (without a 'Nid codex to hand, I presume these can't do any damage?)

These are then effectively "Hit Pools" just like Wound Pools against non-vehicle units, and when we have multiple wound pools from a single weapon type (due to Rending or other such special rules, p35) the shooting player is allowed to choose the order the pools are resolved in. By extension, I would allow the 'Nid player choose to resolve the (2) pool before moving on to the (1) pool.

That would be my reasoning, but interested if there are other suggestions on how to handle it.

That sounds very reasonable Quanar tbh.

Yes the side armor is irrelevant str4 VS AV12.

 Quanar wrote:
Hum, complicated scenario, and not one I've really looked at before. Here's some relevant bits:

Shooting at Vehicles, Vehicle Facing and Armour Values, p75 wrote:If a unit has firing models in two or more different facings of a target vehicle (some models in the front and some in the side, for example), shots are resolved separately for each facing.

Damaging Squadrons, p79 wrote:To do this, allocate individual hits, rather than individual Wounds, one at a time, to the closest model in the squadron. Then roll for Armour Penetration against the correct facing (so against the rear armour in close combat) and determine the result of any glancing or penetrating hits. When this has been done, resolve the next hit, and so on, until all hits have been allocated and resolved.

So my interpretation (HIWPI) would be rolling all To Hit rolls together, with differently coloured dice representing the different groups:
(1) Termagants that are in the rear arc of both tanks.
(2) Termagants that are in the rear arc of only the left-hand tank.
(3) Termagants that are in the side arc of both tanks. (without a 'Nid codex to hand, I presume these can't do any damage?)

These are then effectively "Hit Pools" just like Wound Pools against non-vehicle units, and when we have multiple wound pools from a single weapon type (due to Rending or other such special rules, p35) the shooting player is allowed to choose the order the pools are resolved in. By extension, I would allow the 'Nid player choose to resolve the (2) pool before moving on to the (1) pool.

That would be my reasoning, but interested if there are other suggestions on how to handle it.

Pretty much.

Do note, OP, that even if you have 5 successful hits against the rear from Pool 2 or Pool 1, each Penetration Roll is processed completely before moving on to the next one. So, Roll First Penetration Roll, Determine and Apply Hits, Roll Second Penetration Roll, and so on. It is done this way as Explodes! results are generally considered a factor (even if they are not specifically).

As a result, also, there is a possibility of an "already" Immobilized result from this sequencing that you wouldn't get against a single Vehicle.

Good point Char, I havent been playing it like that at all :(

Had this come up in a tourney. Landed 5 Fire Dragons in the rear arc and half-range of 1 Leman Russ from a squad of 3. If I understand correctly, the correct thing to do would have been as follows:

Shoot 5. Say 4 hit.

Resolve Hit #1; Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was half-range and rear arc, so I got S8+2D6 vs rear armour 10. Say it Explodes!

Resolve Hit #2 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was still half-range, but now side arc. So I get S8+2D6 vs side armour 12. Say it still explodes.

Resolve Hit #3 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was no longer at half-range, and is in the side arc. So I get S8+D6 vs side armour 12. Say it doesn't glance or pen.

Resolve Hit #3 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was no longer at half-range, and is in the side arc. So I get S8+D6 vs side armour 12. Now it gets a glance.


Is this correct?

Maybe, it depends on what you did with the Explodes! results.

 Yarium wrote:
Had this come up in a tourney. Landed 5 Fire Dragons in the rear arc and half-range of 1 Leman Russ from a squad of 3. If I understand correctly, the correct thing to do would have been as follows:

Shoot 5. Say 4 hit.

Resolve Hit #1; Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was half-range and rear arc, so I got S8+2D6 vs rear armour 10. Say it Explodes! Remove Vehicle #1 and place Crater.

Resolve Hit #2 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was still half-range, but now side arc. So I get S8+2D6 vs side armour 12. Say it still explodes. Remove Vehicle #2 and place Crater. -Wow, they were close together.

Resolve Hit #3 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was no longer at half-range, and is in the side arc. So I get S8+D6 vs side armour 12. Say it doesn't glance or pen.

Resolve Hit #3 - Check range for armourbane, roll armour pen, roll pen result, resolve pen result. This one was no longer at half-range, and is in the side arc. So I get S8+D6 vs side armour 12. Now it gets a glance. Remove 1 Hull Point from Vehicle 3.

I've added edits to what would happen to the Vehicles in the Squadron in red, and a little side comment in green.

You don't place craters for Explodes! results anymore.

Since you roll all weapons of one type at the same time, wouldn't all of them go against whatever armor value they are facing of the closest model in the squadron?

In this case, picture 2, 17 rear armor shots. And if the first pen blows up the first LR, then the remaining 16 pens/glances (which were against rear armor of the first tank) go against the second tank, because they have already been rolled for. Even though, they can't technically hurt the second tank from the actual current arc.

No. Hits against vehicle units are resolved sequentially:

"Hitting a vehicle is no guarantee you will actually damage it. Once a hit has been scored on a vehicle, roll a D6..."

Further, the rules for vehicle squadrons are even more explicit:

"Once you have determined the number of hits, these hits must be resolved, one at a time, against the model in the squadron closest to the firing unit..."