Sword & Sorcery (fantasy miniature dungeon crawler) Kickstarter - Amazing production plastics, Pg3

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Bioptic**

It's interesting, because this follows exactly the same model as Zombicide Black Plague:
- original is in popular but less saturated setting (at least at the time)
- success of the original leads to Kickstarting multiple large expansions that combine to form a huge amount of content that is very difficult to exhaust
- not long after delivery of the last of these expansions, Kickstart a more polished version of the original game in a more popular but rather uninspiring fantasy setting (although S&S has much less individuality here) using the same basic mechanics
- ...enjoy massive financial success as a result?

I feel no need to own this game, not just because I own/am expecting a huge number of dungeon crawlers, but because I already own 4 giant boxes of Galaxy Defenders stuff. And I'm nowhere near playing through that stuff.

**Bioptic**

I'm sure the increased level of polish (and now being an established developer) have helped the popularity of this project, but I really am surprised how much more popular the Fantasy theme is proving relative to the pulp Sci-Fi of Galaxy Defenders! It's already going to eclipse the total for season 2, and may well blow past the total of both Kickstarters combined!

I suspect that the single pledge level & early bird really helped. Still not feeling very engaged by the theme though, and I suspect there's not much they can do to change that.

**Bioptic**

So, it looks like they're going with a much more structured approach this time. The Galaxy Defenders Kickstarters were sort of the "Kitchen Sink" approach - you had fully-formed base products that were being upgraded a bit by the Kickstarter, and then as much extra stuff added in as possible outside that structure:

- loads of extra player characters in a game that is structured around a distinct core group of 5 that advances over the missions and various expansions.
- several new enemy types in a game where the enemies are prescribed by the fixed missions (you can "swap them in" if you want).
- lots of new items and powers, in a game where you choose from all those available and the amount of choice rapidly becomes overpowering.

It was a glorious toybox, and a real boon for people creating custom missions, but I actually felt that the core, non-KS versions gave a tighter experience if you were trying to play just the basic game.

I very much prefer the approach here - you are playing through a fixed story containing fixed scenarios, and all the (non-exclusive) stretch goals are doing are adding future expansions, content that you will be able to use 100% on your first run-through of the game.

As far as I can make out, expansion 2 will be the Undead (Undead Lord, Skellies, Death Knights, Werewolves, Curse figure, Cursed Crypts, possibly a couple of heroes), and is almost complete, and expansion 3 will be demons/evil spirits.

My main reservation is that the aesthetics/setting of the game do little to distinguish themselves in a setting that is honestly rather tired. But then again, I backed Dungeon Saga...

**Bioptic**

Yes, the models are being made from the same "crisp" PVC that Super Dungeon Explore and recent CMON games are. I don't know what it will look like with those sculpts, Galaxy Defenders was entirely hand-sculpted and rather more cartooney.

**Bioptic**

It looks like they're trying to shorten the play time of each mission/quest though, and a big part of that is simplifying the positioning and targeting rules, especially because they do impact on resolving the AI. Galaxy Defenders was sometimes tough to fit into a normal boardgaming session.

The downsides of Galaxy Defenders for me are:
- It takes up a lot of table space, between the board, various draw piles, and player sheets that have stuff bolted on to them.
- On a similar note, there are a lot of different kinds of token to keep track of. Good layout is key.
- It is remarkably difficult to kill things (at least with basic equipment), leading to the old XCOM thing of spending several turns shooting at something, it not dying, and your entire strategy being thrown off.
- It has permadeath/elimination for players, and the missions are not very short, as mentioned above. This is not an especially fun combo.
- For a narrative-focused game (you go through a series of set missions, progressing depending on how you did on previous ones) the quality of language isn't very high, seeing as how its an Italian game on a small budget.

But it is very cleverly thought out, now has as much content as you'd care to experience, and I haven't played anything quite like it. Although S&S is much slicker and looks to have been written in response to feedback on Galaxy Defenders, I feel that it has a less strong identity.

EDIT: And there are a couple of $99 EBs open right now!

**Bioptic**

This is interesting, from a PM:

I am writing because we are soon presenting a proposal for two ADD-ON BUNDLES, and I want to give you a few indications about them, so that you make the best choice, based on your current pledge level.
We are presenting two bundles:
- The first bundle, called “Dragon Slayer”, adds to your rewards the three gameplay-oriented add-ons: “Vastaryous’ Lair”, and the heroes “Samyria & Bjorn” and “Onamor & Volkor”. These three items, individually, would cost you $ 71 ($ 40 + $12+ $19). To add this bundle, a pledge $65 above the minimum is required (you save $6).
- The second bundle, called “Immortal”, includes one each of EVERY add-on in the Kickstarter – the three add-ons indicated above, and also a second set of dice, a second cloth bag, metal coins, plastic doors and chests, and a second set of Hero figures. This is a total value of $135, and as a special bonus, we will also include a second copy of the miniatures of your add-on heroes (Samyria, Onamor, Volkor) – to paint them, or to use them as “ghosts”. To add this “all-in” bundle, a pledge of $95 above the minimum is required (you save $40).
We are also adding two PLEDGE LEVELS – “Dragon Slayer Hero ” ($170+Shipping) and “Immortal Hero” ($ 199+Shipping), combining these bundles with the Legendary Hero rewards. These pledge levels are convenient for backers who are not early bird – but you ARE an early bird, so it is a better deal for you to choose the add-on bundles instead!
In case you want to include one of these bundles, just “Manage your pledge” and revise it to match the new amount inclusive of the bundle ($164 for Legendary Hero + Dragon Slayer, $194 for Legendary Hero + Immortal).
In case you are not interested in these bundles – please feel free to keep your pledge to any level you are comfortable with!

**Bioptic**

So, they have production plastic photos of the 5-headed dragon from the factory! And I think it looks rather astonishing - I know that CMON, Conan & Reaper are doing great things with big models for boardgames, but I think that this is right up there (and will still fit on the table):

Put that in a box with 5 little dragon men, a new campaign and a few more room tiles, and I'm more than happy to pay $40.

**Bioptic**

Supposedly production model, assuming the factory isn't doing a bait and switch:

We will give you a more detailed report at the beginning of the new year, but I wanted to share immediately what I got in my mailbox this morning - the photos of the first injection shots of mighty Vastaryous!

This is a very complex model and we were a little worried about the transition from 3D to resin to plastic, but our factory team did an amazing job, preserving its beauty and massive presence...

We are now anxiously waiting to have the physical sample in hand.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sword-and-sorcery-epic-fantasy-co-op-board-and-min/posts/1450555

The master resin for comparison:

**Bioptic**

I'd experiment with the pledge manager and find out! You appear to be able to add whatever you want. I personally think that if the Immortal Bundle add-on appeals, you'd want to pay the extra $105 to get a functional (and supposedly quite fun) game, but it's true that Immortal is as close to "models only" as you can get on this project.

**Bioptic**

Then I'd recommend that you look at a base pledge of $110 + the $40 Dragon pack. It gets you one of every model apart from the 3 add-on heroes (so 110 models in total), including all of the monsters, that aren't in the Immortal Bundle. Every model is going to be unique (although with the normal monsters, that might just mean a change in arm positioning or what they're carrying):

On the other hand, if you're purely interested in the dragon, then the $40 add-on is the way to go. The $95 Immortal add-on has too many things like metal coins, cloth bag, scenery, dice to be worthwhile if you're entirely in it for the miniatures.

**Bioptic**

The way things have been stated for variant poses, expect a big difference (such as a head swap) for the "leader" model and then variant arms for the 4 "troops". Like so:

There's a link to a .gif of the variants of the Gremlin enemy here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1402889231/sword-and-sorcery-epic-fantasy-co-op-board-and-min/posts/1423322

I can't see any links to 100% confirmed production models, although they did have two heroes (the knights and the elf) in what looked very much like production plastic for their videos. They're in this dragon picture, which is a little too zoomed out to tell detail. You can see a bit of bendy-sword there.

I can confirm that the detail level on my Galaxy Defenders sculpts is very good though, even though the sculpts themselves have a lot less detail than S&S.