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Hi! New to the game and still learning the ropes. I looked my codex and rule book up and down 3x over to find the answer to the following question and failed to find it (Mork forgive me.)

Say I am playing Space Marines. For some heretical reason I end up summing daemons through my psychic phase. These daemons still function with all the rules of come of the apocalypse 'allies correct?

Correct. Daemons Conjured by the Psyker are from Codex: Chaos Daemons, and all the consequences of that.

Charistoph wrote:
Correct. Daemons Conjured by the Psyker are from Codex: Chaos Daemons, and all the consequences of that.

Awesome! Thanks for the information. I had an idea for a homebrew chapter that was really big on "Conquering" the warp and 'enslaving' daemons to fight for them, but knowing how much summoning them would cripple me I sadly have to shelf that idea for anything other than house rules if my friends are good with it.

With that idea, why not just run chaos space marines? They are battle brothers with chaos daemons, and you wouldn't worry about unit placement then. There's a special item in one of the supplements that you can give to your chaos sorcerer to make him a Daemon, therefore giving you a very reliable summoning platform if you wish.

Probably just fluff reasons. Such as working a lot with Ordos Malaefic who use a lot of Daemonhosts, and kind of a variation of the Relictors.

But there is also And They Shall Know No Fear and Chapter Traits rules to use along with some of the nice hardware such as Razorbacks, Land Raider variants, Grav Weapons, and the Storm Flyers.

Sorry for the late reply, but it happens a friend and I were just discussing an idea over dinner related to this thread topic, about if Loyalist Space Marines summon Daemons with Daemonology, are they still considered "Come the Apocalypse"? I agree with Charistoph, but IMHO this is why this issue is even in question. From the Big Rule Book on Conjured Units & Victory Conditions:

Conjured units count as part of the army of the player that has conjured them...

That's from the Big Rule Book and it suggests NO, they're not even considered allies, as they are PART of the army, until you read the rest of that line:

Conjured units count as part of the army of the player that has conjured them as far as Victory Conditions and the rules for Victory Points are concerned.

I can totally see how that fragment of the quote can be taken out of context, when its point is regarding Victory Conditions specifically. We haven't had anyone do this in our FLGS, but I agree with the interpretation, being a summoned Daemon does not somehow cancel out other benefits/disadvantages of being a Daemon, it's just that you count as part of the army as far as Victory Conditions/Victory Points are concerned.

Mr ghoti wrote:
With that idea, why not just run chaos space marines?

And for this, it's because we felt you could run an Alpha Legion army better with Loyalist Marines, by representing their Infiltration skills by using Marine Scouts. Being so far "behind enemy lines", they might have stripped down Power Armour or something that made them the equivalent of Carapace Armour for saving throws, we had a few modeling ideas using, say, the Forgeworld Chaos Renegade models with some slight conversions (like putting on Shoulderpads on them). It was an intriguing modeling concept.

And the reason why we even thought about that was how the latest Marine Codex brought Scouts' WS and BS up to 4, same as a normal Marine. It just triggered some ideas.

The Relictors idea was also really interesting. I also thought it would with the Exorcists possibly, who actually deliberately summon Daemons as part of a Space Marine's initiation.

 Kommissar Waaaghrick wrote:
Sorry for the late reply, but it happens a friend and I were just discussing an idea over dinner related to this thread topic, about if Loyalist Space Marines summon Daemons with Daemonology, are they still considered "Come the Apocalypse"? I agree with Charistoph, but IMHO this is why this issue is even in question. From the Big Rule Book on Conjured Units & Victory Conditions:

Conjured units count as part of the army of the player that has conjured them...

That's from the Big Rule Book and it suggests NO, they're not even considered allies, as they are PART of the army, until you read the rest of that line:

Conjured units count as part of the army of the player that has conjured them as far as Victory Conditions and the rules for Victory Points are concerned.

I can totally see how that fragment of the quote can be taken out of context, when its point is regarding Victory Conditions specifically. We haven't had anyone do this in our FLGS, but I agree with the interpretation, being a summoned Daemon does not somehow cancel out other benefits/disadvantages of being a Daemon, it's just that you count as part of the army as far as Victory Conditions/Victory Points are concerned.

I do not understand how that makes a difference.

If you purchased a Detachment of Codex Marines and a Detachment of Daemons, they are both still in your army AND still follow the rules for Allies including "Come The Apocalypse". Being Summoned changes absolutely none of this aspect of the game.

What that line is addressing is that when you opponent kills your Conjured Daemons or your Conjured Daemons move to secure objectives. The alternative is that they are always considered enemies so that you can shoot them? Doesn't sound right to me.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I agree with you on the rules interpretation.

It's just that when someone's trying to argue otherwise, the part I quoted is what probably made them think it's different, because somehow Conjured Daemons are "part of the army".

Charistoph wrote:
What that line is addressing is that when you opponent kills your Conjured Daemons or your Conjured Daemons move to secure objectives.

Just to be clear, as was pointed out in the past, on this last part I think the phrasing was a bit confusing. Conjured Daemons are not Objective Securing units, as you probably know.

But I agree with everything you said beforehand.