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2015/10/10 01:28:35
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
Nids' Shadow in the Warp ability weakens the daemons ability to stay in the materium, so if it's strong enough the daemon incursion could be completely wiped out, AFAIK.
Orks would need a big WAAAAGH to take on daemons, and it can go either way. They'd have the most fun with it, if that counts for anything.
Daemon hunters I don't know much about, but I assume that using their weapons to stop daemons would be costly and their real super weapons are probably irreplaceable, such as tesseracts.
In the end, I'd put it down to Daemon hunt (this is their job after all) or Nids, since they can weaken the daemons just by being there.
Irishpeacockz-Blackjack needs a pay raise for being the welcomer to the crusade
Palleus-Write a school essay about Kroot! Pride. Prejudice. And Cannibalsim.
2015/10/10 02:19:33
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
A Necron planet with a null field matrix would be extremely difficult to invade, as the matrix blocks out the warp and makes it impossible for daemons to stay in the materium. Fluff-wise, spyders with gloom prisms would also be effective, but they are terrible in the actual game. In addition, space-wizardry like tesseract labyrinths could eliminate more powerful daemons with relative ease. I think Necrons would be a difficult opponent for the daemons to defeat if they had access to these options, but without a null field matrix they are in for a hard time.
2015/10/10 02:20:12
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
They don't have souls for Chaos to corrupt and will adapt to anything that the 4 can throw out. I remember some fluff where Nurgle made a bunch of different poxes but the hive fleet adapted and was immune within a day, so he left the fight. Then Tzneetch (or how ever you spell it) left cause shadow in the warp basically negated anything he tried to do. Slaneesh left and Khorn stayed until his forces couldn't maintain a link to reality.
Then the nids ate the planet.
Orks have a whole WAAGH going on in the Eye where they are constantly sieging one of Khorn's planets. Khorn finds this hilarious and brings them back to life every morning to keep the fight going. Entire regions of the planet are covered in ork space fungus so the fight just keeps getting bigger.
2015/10/11 03:30:59
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
Automatically Appended Next Post: At least I think they would there was something special about nids and deamons. If I could just remember what it was.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/11 03:34:31
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2015/10/11 11:27:18
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
The tyranids would not be too interesting in fighting demons. There's no biomass to gain so they would sooner look elsewhere. Otherwise, yes the Shadow In the Warp would make a demonic incursion very unstable.
I would say Demon Hunters would not be the best choice because if it was a full blown demonic incursion of any seriousness they would be just as likely to declair exterminatus on the planet vs. going toe to toe..
On the other hand the Orks love a good fight, and an unending tied of demons vs. an unending tied of orks sounds like just the type of fight orks (and khorne) would want.
2015/10/11 14:52:07
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
Tyranids treat Daemon incursions as if the Daemons are a competing predator that happens to foul any territory it claims.
If Daemons are detected then the Hive Fleet accelerates the pace of consumption of the Daemon-free landmasses, and is largely content to leave the Daemons alone as long as the Daemons stay out of the way. Once everything else is gone, the Hive Mind would presumably make a decision on whether or not it is worth attacking the Daemons in their territory, or to just move on.
Tyranids are well equipped to fight against the Daemon legions of Chaos. The Shadow in the Warp dampens their grip on our reality and makes calling in reinforcements (and using their otherworldly powers) harder to pull off.
Further, Tyranids cannot be corrupted in the traditional sense, and their "souls" are so 'other' that there is precious little for the Chaos Gods to feed upon when Tyranids live and die (no real blood to spill for Khorne, no true suffering for Nurgle to feed on, no ego or hope for Tzeentch to manipulate, no sense of self for Slaanesh to enrapture).
Tyranids are also able to deploy heavy firepower and vast numbers more than the equal of what the Daemons can bring to bear, and Zoanthropes are documented as holding their own when pitting their mental might against even Lords of Change. We have yet to see what sort of effect a Maleceptor brood would have on a Daemon army, but it will not be pretty.
All that said, Tyranid flesh can be altered by the powers of the Warp just as any substance can (think possessed trees and buildings). Tyranid spores that rain down on Daemon worlds can land filled with rotten liquid and so on.
All in all, it's a brutal and mind-bending matchup, and I suppose it really comes down to the power of the overall energies fueling the Daemon invasion versus the size of the Tyranid invasion. Each side's "bonuses" get better and better the larger their numbers/influence is, and that is probably the most deciding factor.
For giggles, Sondheim is an example of Daemons vs Tyranids, and when the Space Marines arrive in orbit to reclaim the world they take one look at what's going on on the surface and think "screw this!" and exterminatus the planet.
2015/10/11 21:49:48
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
All Ward did was give them more devices that nullify the Warp :p
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2015/10/14 03:14:41
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
The Emperor Protects
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2015/10/15 23:30:12
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
All in all, Necrons would be best for defeating the Chaos Incursions, simply due to the fact that the Necrons would just need to build a few Pylons, and the Daemons would be severely weakened. You ever wondered why Chaos has never been able to turn Cadia into a Daemon World? It's because of these Pylons; they basically sever the Warp from the Materium, and thus make it incredibly difficult for Daemons to maintain a foothold in their material bodies, much like Null Field Matrices do. -
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/10/16 05:03:30
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
All in all, Necrons would be best for defeating the Chaos Incursions, simply due to the fact that the Necrons would just need to build a few Pylons, and the Daemons would be severely weakened. You ever wondered why Chaos has never been able to turn Cadia into a Daemon World? It's because of these Pylons; they basically sever the Warp from the Materium, and thus make it incredibly difficult for Daemons to maintain a foothold in their material bodies, much like Null Field Matrices do. -
Tyranids also have their own version of the Pylons, it's called Shadow in the Warp.
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
The only sentient Nids are Genestealers, altough sapience is far more common trait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/16 05:05:16
2015/10/16 06:54:51
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
Tyranids also have their own version of the Pylons, it's called Shadow in the Warp.
Well, not quite. The difference being that in the case of the Shadow in the Warp, what you basically have is the Hive Mind fighting the daemons directly in the Warp in unmanifested forms, whereas the Pylons don't do anything to the daemons themselves, they just prevent them from manifesting with most of their power.
The only sentient Nids are Genestealers, altough sapience is far more common trait.
Other way round - sentience is the ability to experience things subjectively, which is common to all Tyranids, while sapience is the ability to think independently, only possessed by Genestealers and Hive Tyrants (if we consider Norn Queens to be the physical manifestations of the Hive Mind directly rather than as sapient individuals in their own right).
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
2015/10/16 12:56:50
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
I doubt that, That would mean that the corruption of a few drones would be able to cut an entire hive fleet off from the hive mind and basically use a greater daemon as a surrogate for the hive mind's control. As we are discussing a fictional universe subject to the whims of writers, I'm not saying its not possible, but i am saying its unlikely, and would be a departure from established fluff. More than likely, the fleet would recognize the taint and destroy the infected creature.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/10/16 12:57:52
The Emperor Protects
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
2015/10/16 15:57:51
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
I doubt that, That would mean that the corruption of a few drones would be able to cut an entire hive fleet off from the hive mind and basically use a greater daemon as a surrogate for the hive mind's control. As we are discussing a fictional universe subject to the whims of writers, I'm not saying its not possible, but i am saying its unlikely, and would be a departure from established fluff. More than likely, the fleet would recognize the taint and destroy the infected creature.
.
Did you read the whole post? Because I said there, right at the end, that this has like a 99.99% of not happening.
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/10/16 17:16:28
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
I doubt that, That would mean that the corruption of a few drones would be able to cut an entire hive fleet off from the hive mind and basically use a greater daemon as a surrogate for the hive mind's control. As we are discussing a fictional universe subject to the whims of writers, I'm not saying its not possible, but i am saying its unlikely, and would be a departure from established fluff. More than likely, the fleet would recognize the taint and destroy the infected creature.
.
Did you read the whole post? Because I said there, right at the end, that this has like a 99.99% of not happening.
I did, but I felt that you didn't understand my original point, Physical corruption is possible, but unless it was a hive tyrant or synapse creature, mental or spiritual corruption of a single or even a group of nids would be largely irrelevant to the swarm, hive fleet, or Hivemind. Because what you are talking about is Physical corruption. also IIRC Terrestrial Nids are rendered down into biomass and dont return to the fleet, so physically corrupting nids on a planet, even on a large scale would do little to affect the hive fleet.
The Emperor Protects
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
2015/10/16 21:57:52
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
If you think Chaos needs souls to do any corruption you probably haven't been paying much attention to the fluff.
What i think the meaning behind that comment was that individual tyranids lack sentience and sapience outside the hivemind, with a few notable exceptions Therefore Nids are not able to be corrupted in the sense of turned to the side of chaos. They can be corrupted in the sense of harmed, fouled, or damaged.
Except that Chaos could corrupt the flesh of the Tyranids, 'Nids carry said corruption back to the Hive Fleet, corruption spreads, and BOOM Chaos gains control of the Hive Fleet (I doubt this could really happen, but that would be friggin awesome).
I doubt that, That would mean that the corruption of a few drones would be able to cut an entire hive fleet off from the hive mind and basically use a greater daemon as a surrogate for the hive mind's control. As we are discussing a fictional universe subject to the whims of writers, I'm not saying its not possible, but i am saying its unlikely, and would be a departure from established fluff. More than likely, the fleet would recognize the taint and destroy the infected creature.
.
Did you read the whole post? Because I said there, right at the end, that this has like a 99.99% of not happening.
I did, but I felt that you didn't understand my original point, Physical corruption is possible, but unless it was a hive tyrant or synapse creature, mental or spiritual corruption of a single or even a group of nids would be largely irrelevant to the swarm, hive fleet, or Hivemind. Because what you are talking about is Physical corruption. also IIRC Terrestrial Nids are rendered down into biomass and dont return to the fleet, so physically corrupting nids on a planet, even on a large scale would do little to affect the hive fleet.
Hence the 99.99% chance of never happening
To quote a fictional character... "Let's make this fun!"
Tactical_Spam wrote: There was a story in the SM omnibus where a single kroot killed 2-3 marines then ate their gene seed and became a Kroot-startes.
We must all join the Kroot-startes...
2015/10/16 23:06:51
Subject: Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
Tyranids also have their own version of the Pylons, it's called Shadow in the Warp.
Well, not quite. The difference being that in the case of the Shadow in the Warp, what you basically have is the Hive Mind fighting the daemons directly in the Warp in unmanifested forms, whereas the Pylons don't do anything to the daemons themselves, they just prevent them from manifesting with most of their power.
The only sentient Nids are Genestealers, altough sapience is far more common trait.
Other way round - sentience is the ability to experience things subjectively, which is common to all Tyranids, while sapience is the ability to think independently, only possessed by Genestealers and Hive Tyrants (if we consider Norn Queens to be the physical manifestations of the Hive Mind directly rather than as sapient individuals in their own right).
It kinda depends on the definitions.
But the point is that the Tyranids (with the exception of Genestealers) don't have emotions, but some of them (leader creatures) are capable of rational thinking.
And Hive Tyrants and Norn Queens aren't really individuals, as they are part of the Hive Mind. The only individual Tyranids are Genestealers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/10/16 23:07:35
2015/10/16 23:40:53
Subject: Re:Tyranid, Ork , Necron, and Daemonhunters vs Daemon Incursions?
5000 
Strike Force Voulge led by Lord Inquisitor Severus Vaul: 7000 points painted
