Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all,
New player here, recently purchased a bunch of space marines to start a Imperial Fist collection (love the yellow), having gotten disappointed with my guard army early on.
I need advice on how to outfit them all as i'll one day be wanting to play games with them, my purchases are as follows:

- 2 x Tactical Marines (I've already gone ML, Plasma and Sergeant with Combi-Plasma on one squad)
- 2 x Devastators
- 1 x Centurion Devastators
- 1 x Assault Termies (I was going to stick these and Lysander in a pod to cause havoc behind enemy lines?)
- 1 x Lysander

I did also pick up a Typhon Siege Tank from Forge World, however this was mostly to sit and look pretty once painted, I do also have a lot of spare models that a friend gave me a long time ago, however this is not listed.

I'm open to new purchases and any/all advice as I'm completely inexperienced with this.

Many Thanks

I'm not sure how you plan to fit 6 Terminators in a Pod. Maybe a Pod with a Locator Beacon and hope for a T3 assault?

While Tacticals are better under Imperial Fists CT, it's Bolter Scouts and Sternguard that truly shine.

I'm not sure how you plan to fit 6 Terminators in a Pod. Maybe a Pod with a Locator Beacon and hope for a T3 assault?

Like I said I'm new to the game and rules wise, I'm not very clued up. Hence why i'm posting
Here to learn!

OliveGrimsbarian wrote:

I'm not sure how you plan to fit 6 Terminators in a Pod. Maybe a Pod with a Locator Beacon and hope for a T3 assault?

Like I said I'm new to the game and rules wise, I'm not very clued up. Hence why i'm posting
Here to learn!

Take a page from your fellow sons of Rogal Dorn and stick the terminators and Lysander in a Land Raider Crusader. You can even fit some more in there as well!

You want transports for your Tac squads. Razorbacks with TL Lascannon or Las/Plas work well; stick the Sergeant with the plasma and one half of the squad while the rest stay back with the Missile Launcher. Do this twice and you have your troops filled out in an effective manner.

DO NOT mix weapons with Devastators. They are best all kitted out with the same gun so they can all effectively take on the same kinds of targets. Since you have Centurion Devastators (and don't have Tigurius or Draigo) give them Missile Launchers and the Sergeant with Lascannon. For the Devastators themselves, Lascannons are the go-to, but I've also heard good things about Plasma Cannons as well.

You have plenty of fire support and a decent CC hammer. What you lack is effective mobility. I would suggest Bike squads to flank your opponent, or Land Speeders. Land Speeder Storms can take Scout Squads for agile scoring units, and you might want to consider Sternguard in Drop Pods for more mobility and killing power up close. Command Squads work well too.

Hope this helps you out.

OliveGrimsbarian wrote:
Hey all,
New player here, recently purchased a bunch of space marines to start a Imperial Fist collection (love the yellow), having gotten disappointed with my guard army early on.
I need advice on how to outfit them all as i'll one day be wanting to play games with them, my purchases are as follows:

- 2 x Tactical Marines (I've already gone ML, Plasma and Sergeant with Combi-Plasma on one squad)
- 2 x Devastators
- 1 x Centurion Devastators
- 1 x Assault Termies (I was going to stick these and Lysander in a pod to cause havoc behind enemy lines?)
- 1 x Lysander

I did also pick up a Typhon Siege Tank from Forge World, however this was mostly to sit and look pretty once painted, I do also have a lot of spare models that a friend gave me a long time ago, however this is not listed.

I'm open to new purchases and any/all advice as I'm completely inexperienced with this.

Many Thanks

Welcome, Brother of the VII legion! Though I do not share the blood of the Noble Rogal Dorn, I will offer what advice I can from the perspective of the IX legion.

Firstly, as other have said, Lysander cannot go in a pod with Assault Terminators sadly, as the minimum squad size is five models, and they are bulky, taking up two slots in the Drop Pod, which only has room for 10 models.

The advice on bringing a Land Raider is sound, though you'll need to, at minimum, field a Land Raider Redeemer to fit all six models in there (Lysander + your five assault terminators). I suggest a mix of both Claws and Hammers personally, though five hammer & storm shields backing up Lysander never sucks. I prefer the Redeemer over the Crusader as the crusader has a lot of transport capacity that will go unused unless you plan on filling the squad out more in the future. Also, Flamestorm Cannons are extremely scary for models that want to try and close in and charge with melta or haywire grenades. Pushing up and dropping two Flamestorm templates is, in a word, satisfying.

Your tactical squad isn't a bad one setup wise, though I personally would have chosen a different heavy weapon, the Missile Launcher isn't a bad choice, and if you spring for Flak Missiles it actually does give them some utility as a static anti-flyer duty. Coupled with their Chapter Tactics, Flak Missile throwing Imperial Fist tactical squads are not bad at all for dealing with armored flying targets.

Your Devastator boxes can be built how you like, and I will echo the sentiment of thenewblood to a point. However I will make one exception. I will mix a few specific weapons in a devastator squad in certain circumstances, depending on what I want that squad to do. Being Imperial Fists, I think your best bet is going to be anti-tank weapons to take advantage of your Chapter Tactics and to help deal with armored targets. The two weapons I would look at mixing are Heavy Bolters and Plasma Cannons. They both have the same range, gives you a nice volume of fire weapon for wounding targets as well as a pair if small blast templates with AP:2 that can hurt most anything infantry wise. This squad really shines if there are boots on the ground in range, and your bolter drill Chapter Tactic works on the Heavy Bolters as well, so bonus hits for them is always a good thing. This keeps the squad somewhat cheaper than 4x Plasma Cannons and also allows them to hit infantry pretty hard too regardless of the save they have. Always use the Signum on one of the Plasma Cannons also. Beyond that, I would run 4x Lascannons on the other Devastator squad. Use them to hunt tanks. I would also consider buffing one or both of these units up to at least 8 models strong, 10 if you can manage it, as then you can combat squad and have a screening squad of bolters for the heavy guns squad, or conversely have two heavy weapons in each combat squad so you can fire at multiple targets or focus the fire on one target. Perhaps re-purpose some of the old models your friend gave you for this cause.

Your Centurion Devastators can be armed with Grav cannon + Grav amp if you need some added AP:2 anti-infantry/response to tough units such as wraith constructs and the like. Putting them in a Drop Pod isn't a bad option, either. That way you can put them where you need them. You may want to consider tossing a Librarian in there as well in power armor to help give them some psychic buffs, but that's an option for later consideration. It would give you a backfield "Oh Crap!" unit for your opponent to deal with, just don't expect them to survive long if you drop them near the entire enemy force. They'll likely kill whatever they shoot at, but the return fire will be plentiful and likely withering.

I hope these suggestions help, and best of luck with your army! Do share photos of your stuff once you get some paint on them.

Take it easy for now.

-Red__Thirst-

A Land Raider is absolutely a horrible idea. Either bring a Ceramite Spartan Assault Tank or Deep Strike them for a T3 assault.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
A Land Raider is absolutely a horrible idea. Either bring a Ceramite Spartan Assault Tank or Deep Strike them for a T3 assault.

You forgot to add in the "In my opinion" after you said a land raider is a horrible idea, because, you know, that's your opinion.

I happen to find them useful, and against most opponents they don't suck. Sure against Knights or other Lords of War they're not optimal but our friend here is just getting into the game and wants to know about options.

In MY OPINION, Land Raiders are useful and able to accomplish their objective for this list: I.E. Getting Lysander and his squad of assault terminators forward fast in order to get a T:2/T:3 charge off against a target while protecting them from small arms fire.

There's nothing that says he can't deploy Lysander and friends via Deep Strike either and keep the Land Raider to help support his other troops and deter bikes or other fast units from closing ranks on him. Can't jink out of a Flamestorm Cannon's shot after all.

People seem to forget that their thoughts on here are purely that: Their own thoughts. They are not gospel. They are not the end-all-be-all word from the Emperor/Chaos god of your choosing/on high. Do not pass off your own OPINION as fact, or the only correct one. I've got news for you: It isn't.

All we're doing is offering our OPINIONS to the original poster and he can then form his own opinion based on his own research and experience on the tabletop versus his regular opponents.

To OliveGrimsbarain: Try a few things out and see what you like. I think the Redeemer pattern Land Raider has merit. Your mileage may vary, but give it a try and see what you think.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

 Red__Thirst wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
A Land Raider is absolutely a horrible idea. Either bring a Ceramite Spartan Assault Tank or Deep Strike them for a T3 assault.

You forgot to add in the "In my opinion" after you said a land raider is a horrible idea, because, you know, that's your opinion.

I happen to find them useful, and against most opponents they don't suck. Sure against Knights or other Lords of War they're not optimal but our friend here is just getting into the game and wants to know about options.

In MY OPINION, Land Raiders are useful and able to accomplish their objective for this list: I.E. Getting Lysander and his squad of assault terminators forward fast in order to get a T:2/T:3 charge off against a target while protecting them from small arms fire.

There's nothing that says he can't deploy Lysander and friends via Deep Strike either and keep the Land Raider to help support his other troops and deter bikes or other fast units from closing ranks on him. Can't jink out of a Flamestorm Cannon's shot after all.

People seem to forget that their thoughts on here are purely that: Their own thoughts. They are not gospel. They are not the end-all-be-all word from the Emperor/Chaos god of your choosing/on high. Do not pass off your own OPINION as fact, or the only correct one. I've got news for you: It isn't.

All we're doing is offering our OPINIONS to the original poster and he can then form his own opinion based on his own research and experience on the tabletop versus his regular opponents.

To OliveGrimsbarain: Try a few things out and see what you like. I think the Redeemer pattern Land Raider has merit. Your mileage may vary, but give it a try and see what you think.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

Land Raiders ARE horrible. They're not cost effective with shooting, and they are terribly expensive for something so easily popped. This isn't opinion. This is MATH. Unless you want to say math is wrong and that Warp Talons are cool too.

Anything outside D Weapons will have a harder time killing a Spartan thanks to Ceramite AND 5 HP. Plus Lysander is durable enough to tank hits for his squad (3++, 5+++, EW). So even Deep Striking them is a better idea than a Land Raider. Land Raiders are JUNK.

So quit throwing misinformation in various threads. It is ridiculous.

And for the record, the Redeemer is bad too because you won't hit anything with the Sponsons against an opponent with half a brain. Even the God Hammer is better for that reason alone, and that says something because that's a terrible unit too.

It would help if you'd point out that the Spartan is a $200 USD tank that also requires a $100 book (Imperial Armour Volume Two – Second Edition: War Machines of the Adeptus Astartes) to use.

Deep Strike them then. Land Raiders are literally that bad of an idea.

Firstly thank you for the advice, it's always useful .

As I said I am a new player getting into the game, so I am willing to make purchases but I did just buy a £100 Typhon Siege Tank purely on aesthetics, so I doubt i'll be spending that on a tank again any time soon.

Deep striking, see this is something I don't get, I only knew about the drop pod (please treat me like a child learning to read with this game, I honestly haven't read that much into the rules, I have always just done models in the past, this is my first attempt at going into 'the game as a game' if you catch my drift).

Many Thanks,
The Newbie

Man you are the definition of TFG in this thread there sparky.

To the original poster: Don't let people like this scare you away from the hobby. Keep on keeping on and build your army the way you want to. Try out different deployment methods and strategies and see what you like and what you don't and then go from there.

Best of luck, and if you want any list building advice or care to bounce ideas feel free to shoot me a PM.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

P.S.: Terminators can deep strike innately via teleportation from orbit. It's part of their rules for wearing the terminator (also known as tactical dreadnought) armor. They can also ride in a pod, which is safer, but limits them to a max squad size of 5 models. Hope that helps!

Models in terminator armor can deep strike. Check out the deep strike rules in the basic rule book. Below is a poor summary:

When the unit comes in from reserves, you take one of the models and put it wherever you want. That includes your opponent's deployment zone, middle of the board, your own deployment zone, etc.

Then pick up 2d6 and the scatter die. Roll them, preferably close to your model. If the "Hit" result shows up on the die, then put your other models for that unit around it. If the 'Arrow" shows up on the die, then move your model that direction as far as the 2d6 result tells you. Then place the other models for that unit around it. If one of the models is within 1" of your opponent's models, or off the table, or in impassable terrain, roll on the mishap table.

The benefit of this method of deployment is that you can get near an opponent's objective, or in their back lines near their tanks, objective camping units, etc. And you don't need an expensive transport (Land Raider) to do it.

The drawbacks: You have to wait until the following turn to assault, you are bunched up and begging for a template weapon to shoot you, and you have to wait until a successful reserves roll (or turn 4) to get the unit.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Deep Strike them then. Land Raiders are literally that bad of an idea.

From a purely competitive standpoint Land Raiders are terrible. However, at anything less than GT-level games Land Raiders can be effective as long as you realize that they're meant to be an assault transport, not a weapons platform. Deploy as far forward as possible, Flat-Out first turn, then disembark for a turn two assault. It should be noted that this tactic benefits greatly from having other fast units with which to distract your opponent.

 TheNewBlood wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Deep Strike them then. Land Raiders are literally that bad of an idea.

From a purely competitive standpoint Land Raiders are terrible. However, at anything less than GT-level games Land Raiders can be effective as long as you realize that they're meant to be an assault transport, not a weapons platform. Deploy as far forward as possible, Flat-Out first turn, then disembark for a turn two assault. It should be noted that this tactic benefits greatly from having other fast units with which to distract your opponent.

As a Black Templar player, I concur. Not everyone plays in GT level events.

Sons of Dorn!

Raiders are not horrible if your intention is to use it to get a strong killy team up field with relatively little damage and the ability to assault the same turn they get out.

Sadly mathammer can't really compute the synergistic and tactical benefits of its use in this manner.

Mathematically sitting it in the corner and depending on it to fight on its own is a poor decision, but using it in this manner is also a poor decision tactically.

With all your heavy weapons if you prioritize targets based on what can damage or destroy it you may find eventually your opponent has nothing left that can kill it.

It is vulnerable to Alpha strikes with melta weapons (what isn't in all honesty) so when faced with that type of enemy make sure to surround your tank with infantry on the first turn.

Cheers and welcome

Even against semi-competitive or even fluffy lists, my Land Raiders rarely see the end of the game.

They are a 250 point tax to get off a turn 2 assault with my Terminators.

 kronk wrote:
Even against semi-competitive or even fluffy lists, my Land Raiders rarely see the end of the game.

They are a 250 point tax to get off a turn 2 assault with my Terminators.

I agree and feel the same way about the ones I field, but I use it to keep my Oblitorators tzeentch death star safe from Alpha strikes and is well worth its points usually.

Once again huge thanks to everyone, I look how a lot of people pool into helping out a newbie.

When I bought my units I just went quite fluffy, i'm a huge fluff addict, absolutely love the lore/setting of the game, so that is why tactically it might not make much sense.
As I previously said, if I have to pay for more models I honestly do not mind (just give me the excuse ), i'm going to have to try get into the community in my area more too.

Thanks a lot!
For the Sons of Dorn!

 Konrax wrote:
Raiders are not horrible if your intention is to use it to get a strong killy team up field with relatively little damage and the ability to assault the same turn they get out.

Sadly mathammer can't really compute the synergistic and tactical benefits of its use in this manner.

Mathematically sitting it in the corner and depending on it to fight on its own is a poor decision, but using it in this manner is also a poor decision tactically.

With all your heavy weapons if you prioritize targets based on what can damage or destroy it you may find eventually your opponent has nothing left that can kill it.

It is vulnerable to Alpha strikes with melta weapons (what isn't in all honesty) so when faced with that type of enemy make sure to surround your tank with infantry on the first turn.

Cheers and welcome

No, they're still poor for that because they take more than 200 points to do so and are THAT easily popped. Then the Terminators are relegated to trying to run up the field. AV14 isn't hard to destroy anymore, otherwise you'd see Necron players bring out their Monolith models. And Land Raiders are worse off, which says a lot.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Red__Thirst wrote:
Man you are the definition of TFG in this thread there sparky.

To the original poster: Don't let people like this scare you away from the hobby. Keep on keeping on and build your army the way you want to. Try out different deployment methods and strategies and see what you like and what you don't and then go from there.

Best of luck, and if you want any list building advice or care to bounce ideas feel free to shoot me a PM.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

P.S.: Terminators can deep strike innately via teleportation from orbit. It's part of their rules for wearing the terminator (also known as tactical dreadnought) armor. They can also ride in a pod, which is safer, but limits them to a max squad size of 5 models. Hope that helps!

Stopping someone from making a crap purchasing mistake makes me TFG? Some units are just bad and shouldn't be purchased, game and money wise (the Land Raider IS a nice model, after all).

If someone made a thread about getting CSM's and asked about a strategy involving Warp Talons and Rubrics, I'd certainly hope someone would steer them away from that direction.