Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've frantically searched this forum as well as other for something concrete about Power Of the Machine Spirit and if it allows you a full BS shot when jinking. This seemed like a very heated topic and I could find nothing that seemed concrete enough.


This is the most recent thread I found but I didn't want to revive an old thread;

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/644649.page#7755108


This one is interesting too;

https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/3891lh/power_of_the_machine_spirit_jinking_and/

The rules for vehicles say, "A vehicle that moved at combat speed may fire a single weapon using its full ballistic skill. The vehicle can also fire snap shots with other weapons if it wishes." then it says "A vehicle that moved at cruising speed can only fire snap shots."

The Jink rule states that, in addition to when you can use it and how the unit gets a cover save, that the unit "can only fire snap shots until the end of their next turn."

So my logic is ; Suppose your vehicle has 4 weapons and you have moved at combat speed. You normally would be allowed to fire 1 weapon at normal BS and the other 3 are snapshots resolved at BS 1. Potms allows you to fire 1 additional weapon than normal at full BS. In this scenario , you would be able to fire 2 weapons at full BS (overriding snapshot rule). Therefore , when you jink , and have potms , 1 snap shot should be overridden to fire at full BS.

Please clarify if I am mistaken.

If Power of the Machine Spirit is unable to shoot a weapon at full BS that would otherwise be a Snap Shot as a result of Jink, then it would be unable to do the same for a weapon ordinarily required to be a Snap Shot as a result of moving at combat speed.

Additionally, where the Snap Shot rules refer to special rules needing to specifically state they modify Snap Shots to have any such effect, it should be noted that necessarily refers to situations in which a Snap Shot is actually enforced. In the case of Power of the Machine Spirit there simply is no Snap Shot for the chosen weapon.

I had to reread that a couple times. If I understand you correctly , you are saying that potsm doesn't allow an extra shot at full bs for either scenario (cruising speed,or jinking) .

If that is so , what scenario would you be offered an extra shot at full bs? What is potsm intended to do?

No, I'm saying the opposite.

I'm simply pointing out that those who claim it doesn't work for Jink cannot still allow it for an additional full BS shot at Combat or Cruising Speed. What it's meant to do is perfectly clear - allow you to fire one more weapon at full BS than normally allowed. People who say it doesn't work for Jink, to be consistent, must then remove that obviously intended function from the effects it gives, which is wrong.

The reasoning I think most often given that it cannot is because it does not say it modifies Snap Shots, but for the reason given I believe that's irrelevant - there simply is no Snap Shot that needs modifying for the chosen weapon.

Is there any FAQs or other solid material to reference? Because the implications of having potms allowing 1 shot to not be a snapshot allows for shooting at full bs while jinking/ shooting at fliers/ while crew shaken / firing ordinance / etc.

There isn't, because there really doesn't need to be. If you Jink, PotMS lets you shoot one weapon at full BS.

jonman_t wrote:
Is there any FAQs or other solid material to reference? Because the implications of having potms allowing 1 shot to not be a snapshot allows for shooting at full bs while jinking/ shooting at fliers/ while crew shaken / firing ordinance / etc.

It does, otherwise it would be a pointless rule. But note that it does not work against flyers, because these are not Snap Shots but resolved as Snap Shots. Your PotMS would be full BF, but resolved as a Snap Shot.

 Hanskrampf wrote:

jonman_t wrote:
Is there any FAQs or other solid material to reference? Because the implications of having potms allowing 1 shot to not be a snapshot allows for shooting at full bs while jinking/ shooting at fliers/ while crew shaken / firing ordinance / etc.

It does, otherwise it would be a pointless rule. But note that it does not work against flyers, because these are not Snap Shots but resolved as Snap Shots. Your PotMS would be full BF, but resolved as a Snap Shot.

Actually it's because Hard To Hit requires Skyfire to override it, not simply the ability to override Snap Shots.

PotMS really needs to be reviewed and rewritten to be clear as to which cases it is talking about, though. It technically does not specifically overwrite Snap Shots as a matter of course, but everyone considers that it does in cases of Ordnance, Jink, and Shaken/Stunned.