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Hello everyone! Wanted to hear opinions on the new Knight from Forgeworld found here: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Mechanicum-Cerastus-Knight-Atrapos . I want one, but it seems the preorder is already sold out :|.

Looks pretty whacky thanks to the rules on the site - what do you guys think?

I want for the model alone. That thing is epic. Forget the fact I want at least one of every knight. His rules are fine, an interesting twist on most other rules.

While it looks the most like a mini-Titan than any Knight so far, and it has a lightsaber, I don't care for the black hole gun. Str 8 at 36", it's own "gets hot" rule that can cause lose of hull ponts each time its fired, seems like a more expensive Magaera. And the Magaera is a turd.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
While it looks the most like a mini-Titan than any Knight so far, and it has a lightsaber, I don't care for the black hole gun. Str 8 at 36", it's own "gets hot" rule that can cause lose of hull ponts each time its fired, seems like a more expensive Magaera. And the Magaera is a turd.

SJ

It looks like it only does 1 HP on the roll of a 1, and becomes a D weapon on the roll of a six. It didn't seem that bad.

I'm interested in what the knight scion is that they give you when you buy the knight.

As far as the knight itself, its got 1 hp more than a regular knight, a Strength D gun, extra av on the rear, pseudo IWND, + whatever ocular augmentics is for an extra 10pts.

Also the Atrapos Las-cutter has the word beam under it in parenthesis. Does that mean it is fired as per the beam rules?

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:
I'm interested in what the knight scion is that they give you when you buy the knight.

As far as the knight itself, its got 1 hp more than a regular knight, a Strength D gun, extra av on the rear, pseudo IWND, + whatever ocular augmentics is for an extra 10pts.

Also the Atrapos Las-cutter has the word beam under it in parenthesis. Does that mean it is fired as per the beam rules?

I think that is just a weapon setting, as opposed to (melee)

All knights have AV12 on the rear, granted he can effectively raise his AV value on any facing if that's the side the shield is on.

The D-weapon is almost useless due to it having an 8" range. The vortex potential of the other gun is actually a bad thing; a 5" D template floating around is not something you want when your knights are charging into CC.
I see only one real use or this guy, and that's GC hunting: Shoot it with both the guns, hopefully chipping off some wounds with the D-gun and making it I1 via concussive with the other. Then assault and hope your other attacks kill it. Problem is that with S8 your odds of actually getting concussive to stick are pretty slim once you factor in cover/invul saves and the T8+ of the GMCs that are actually a threat. If it had more shots with either of its weapons or costed less it would be a lot more useful, as of now it's simply on the level of most other knights: meh.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
While it looks the most like a mini-Titan than any Knight so far, and it has a lightsaber, I don't care for the black hole gun. Str 8 at 36", it's own "gets hot" rule that can cause lose of hull ponts each time its fired, seems like a more expensive Magaera. And the Magaera is a turd.

SJ

Gets Hot is such an overrated problem. It has 7 HP itself and you only have a 1/6 chance of it happening.

I also think the Magaera is a lot better than the one with the Helstorm Template. That really is opinion though.

A few things to keep in mind:
1. While it has a 1/6 chance of losing a hull point with the Graviton Singularity Cannon (GSC), it also has a 1/6 chance of regenerating a hull point due to Blessed Autosimulacra, and it also has 7hp compared to other knights' 6hp.
2. The GSC, while S8 to the Knight Errant's S9 Thermal Cannon, has the Armourbane rule, so it's always rolling 2d6 to penetrate, regardless of range, and melta-immune targets are susceptible to it.
3. The lascutter's shooting attack is largely there so you can shoot the GSC at one thing, and use the lascutter to shoot the target you want to charge (so I would prefer if the lascutter's range was 12" to match the potential charge range).
4. Ocular Augmetics grants the Night Vision rule (useful for those first turn Night Fights), but also lets you reroll 1s on the D and vehicle damage tables with shooting attacks at less than 12".

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
A few things to keep in mind:
1. While it has a 1/6 chance of losing a hull point with the Graviton Singularity Cannon (GSC), it also has a 1/6 chance of regenerating a hull point due to Blessed Autosimulacra, and it also has 7hp compared to other knights' 6hp.
2. The GSC, while S8 to the Knight Errant's S9 Thermal Cannon, has the Armourbane rule, so it's always rolling 2d6 to penetrate, regardless of range, and melta-immune targets are susceptible to it.
3. The lascutter's shooting attack is largely there so you can shoot the GSC at one thing, and use the lascutter to shoot the target you want to charge (so I would prefer if the lascutter's range was 12" to match the potential charge range).
4. Ocular Augmetics grants the Night Vision rule (useful for those first turn Night Fights), but also lets you reroll 1s on the D and vehicle damage tables with shooting attacks at less than 12".

It does seem pretty solid. I might just get one funds permitting. I've always wanted a knight, and this one has a light saber!

 greyknight12 wrote:
The D-weapon is almost useless due to it having an 8" range.

Is a melee D-weapon on a knight worthless because of its short range? Of course not. If you're close enough to reliably charge a unit with your melee D-weapon you're close enough to shoot it. The shooting version effectively acts as a bonus attack that swings at infinite initiative and doesn't even commit you to charging.

Wait a second guys. What did Geedubs and FW just release? Two nifty looking GC for the Tau. What can this guy do? Murder GC. Coincidence?

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Wait a second guys. What did Geedubs and FW just release? Two nifty looking GC for the Tau. What can this guy do? Murder GC. Coincidence?

Its as if this company is trying to sell their models to us or something based off of their rules! ^

Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Concussive reduces models to I1 when they take a successful WOUND. Since vehicles don't take wounds, they aren't affected. Fleshbane would have been better (or a nice addition).

 greyknight12 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Concussive reduces models to I1 when they take a successful WOUND. Since vehicles don't take wounds, they aren't affected. Fleshbane would have been better (or a nice addition).

So it's not really anti-anything specific. It can kill everything moderately. *shrug*

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

True, the GCS isn't the best at taking down GCs, but the Atrapos, in its fluff, anyway, is meant to take on war machines that are an affront to the Omnissiah, so naturally they would need to be technological in nature...which doesn't explain the Tau....

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Be happy the lascutter even has a ranged attack, allowing you to shoot the GSC at one thing, and the lascutter at something else you want to charge. The Lancer and Castigator do not get that luxury/

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

True, the GCS isn't the best at taking down GCs, but the Atrapos, in its fluff, anyway, is meant to take on war machines that are an affront to the Omnissiah, so naturally they would need to be technological in nature...which doesn't explain the Tau....

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Be happy the lascutter even has a ranged attack, allowing you to shoot the GSC at one thing, and the lascutter at something else you want to charge. The Lancer and Castigator do not get that luxury/

Indeed, it is pretty fantastic having 2 ranged attack options. The fluff makes sense too, but it it unfortunate how bad this thing is against the Tau'nar, as you mentioned.

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

True, the GCS isn't the best at taking down GCs, but the Atrapos, in its fluff, anyway, is meant to take on war machines that are an affront to the Omnissiah, so naturally they would need to be technological in nature...which doesn't explain the Tau....

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Be happy the lascutter even has a ranged attack, allowing you to shoot the GSC at one thing, and the lascutter at something else you want to charge. The Lancer and Castigator do not get that luxury/

Indeed, it is pretty fantastic having 2 ranged attack options. The fluff makes sense too, but it it unfortunate how bad this thing is against the Tau'nar, as you mentioned.

It doesn't seem like it would be all that bad honestly against the Tau'nar. Why do you think it would?

 DoomShakaLaka wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
Do you guys really think it is that good at taking out GCs? The Graviton cannon (with armourbane instead of fleshbane) strikes me more as another anti-knight weapon: concussive, making other knights I1, and armourbane, which does nothing against GCs.

True, the GCS isn't the best at taking down GCs, but the Atrapos, in its fluff, anyway, is meant to take on war machines that are an affront to the Omnissiah, so naturally they would need to be technological in nature...which doesn't explain the Tau....

The short-range of the D weapon is a concern, but with a 12" move and ocular augmetics (and macro-extinction protocols) it's less scary than a normal 1-shot weapon.

Be happy the lascutter even has a ranged attack, allowing you to shoot the GSC at one thing, and the lascutter at something else you want to charge. The Lancer and Castigator do not get that luxury/

Indeed, it is pretty fantastic having 2 ranged attack options. The fluff makes sense too, but it it unfortunate how bad this thing is against the Tau'nar, as you mentioned.

It doesn't seem like it would be all that bad honestly against the Tau'nar. Why do you think it would?

Well, it only has a single ranged D weapon attack, so the Tau'nar's shield is going to be fantastic against it, and it's primary ranged attack only wounds on 5s. Just as two examples.