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So this came up in a game of mine and I thought I would toss it around here to see what you guys think.

My immortals fired on a Rhino after hitting I rolled one 6, I know that for the gauss rule that I cause a hull point due to rolling the 6 but, I was informed that due to the fact the weapon str of 5 had matched the Armour of 11 due to rolling the 6 that the hit removed two Hp instead of one. One for matching the Armour value and one for the special rule. If this is in fact true then I have been playing gauss wrong for some while as I was not adding the extra Hp for matching AV (in the cases which I matched AV)

Then it came to my attention that Void Blades have both Entropic strike and Rending, so i started to wonder. Since ES and Rending both automatically wound on a roll of a 6, does this cause two wounds to a model where one is AP2 and the other is AP-, or does it cause one wound using the AP2?

I did not see any other post regarding this issue as of yet.

No, neither case will cause 2 wounds/glances on a single six. The thing you need to note is that none of the rules in question make it an additional wound/glance. It just lets the 6 be a wound or glance.

They're just redundant rules. There's nothing to lead one to believe that they stack.

Read the rules for gauss/entropy strike. It basically gives you the standard armor penetration/to wound rolls with an extra chance to glance. It allows you to wound/glance on a specific value, unless the roll would be higher.

For instance the gauss weapon on a heavy destroyer is S9 AP2 Gauss. Now unless they invent a building/vehicle with AV 16, you are going to be glancing/penning on less than a 6. A result of a 6 doesn't cause an additional glance, as you already penetrated the vehicle.

Same thing applies for rending. Rending doesn't allow you to wound a creature you normally cannot harm. A genestealer cannot hurt a T9 Greater Unclean One, even with rending. It just treats the resulting wound at AP2. This WILL stack with entropic strike, however, but with only one resulting wound. Entropic strike will automatically wound on a 6, and rending will make it AP2.

Mr ghoti wrote:
Same thing applies for rending. Rending doesn't allow you to wound a creature you normally cannot harm. A genestealer cannot hurt a T9 Greater Unclean One, even with rending. It just treats the resulting wound at AP2. This WILL stack with entropic strike, however, but with only one resulting wound. Entropic strike will automatically wound on a 6, and rending will make it AP2.

Actually Rending DOES allow that Genestealer to Automatically Wound on a 6, just like Entropic Strike.

Still, the rest is accurate. It only applies 1 Wound per To-Wound Roll, even with both rules in play. Neither one states that an additional Wound is generated, even with both.

Entropic Strike and Rending on Vehicles is slightly different. If you roll a 6 on Armour Penetration, you are guaranteed a Glancing Hit, but the D3 from Rending may allow for a Penetrating Hit (if you didn't already Penetrate it with the rolled 6).

Charistoph wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Same thing applies for rending. Rending doesn't allow you to wound a creature you normally cannot harm. A genestealer cannot hurt a T9 Greater Unclean One, even with rending. It just treats the resulting wound at AP2. This WILL stack with entropic strike, however, but with only one resulting wound. Entropic strike will automatically wound on a 6, and rending will make it AP2.

Actually Rending DOES allow that Genestealer to Automatically Wound on a 6, just like Entropic Strike..

How? Rending says that rolls of a 6 are resolved at AP2 (and the D3 pen extra against vehicles) how would it let it wound something it couldnt hurt?

 kezwick wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

Mr ghoti wrote:
Same thing applies for rending. Rending doesn't allow you to wound a creature you normally cannot harm. A genestealer cannot hurt a T9 Greater Unclean One, even with rending. It just treats the resulting wound at AP2. This WILL stack with entropic strike, however, but with only one resulting wound. Entropic strike will automatically wound on a 6, and rending will make it AP2.

Actually Rending DOES allow that Genestealer to Automatically Wound on a 6, just like Entropic Strike..

How? Rending says that rolls of a 6 are resolved at AP2 (and the D3 pen extra against vehicles) how would it let it wound something it couldnt hurt?

Or you could read the whole rule

"If a model has the Rending special rule, or is attacking with a Melee weapon that has the Rending special rule, there is a chance that his close combat attacks will strike a critical blow. For each To Wound roll of a 6, the target automatically suffers a Wound, regardless of its Toughness. These Wounds are resolved at AP2."

ha fancy that years of playing and always played it as AP2 i appologise for my stupididty

 Ghaz wrote:
They're just redundant rules. There's nothing to lead one to believe that they stack.

Sort of redundant. A S4 model with only Rending cannot hurt a Land Raider. However with Entropic Strike, it can. It is very situational that ES will apply when Rending doesnt.

1 wound/1HP is what I figured, but I ran into those that said other wise and was wondering.

 kezwick wrote:
ha fancy that years of playing and always played it as AP2 i appologise for my stupididty

Ap 2 for wounds only is new to 7th, 6th and before was ap2 for vehicles damage as well.

 BLADERIKER wrote:
1 wound/1HP is what I figured, but I ran into those that said other wise and was wondering.

People often read into things that aren't there. People also have it in their head that things are a certain way.

What differentiates people is how they react when others suggest an alternative or they come across the facts. Do they research or do they cling to their own paradigm and damn the rocks.

To the original question, no, it doesn't do an extra glance etc.

The people wondering why voidblade has a seemingly redundant rule? It isn't. Entropic Strike guarantees a glance, where rending may not glance at all.