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The Stormsurge is a bit of an oddity. It has the battlesuit designation of a close quarters suit, has what is effectively a giant shotgun on it's back, and is a GC. On the other hand, it can take a long range weapon, has a special rule allowing it to fire at range but it can't move, and doesn't have a high toughness (for a GC) or 2+ save that you would expect on such a large suit, especially if it is designed for CC.

For close range, it has the blastcannon that gets stronger the close it gets to its target, a 12" movement, and some potentially devastating overwatch weapons, not to mention stomping.
For long range, it has the stabilizers and the pulse driver, which it could fire twice if stabilized.

Which do you prefer?

There is nothing the Stormsurge brings to the table that the Riptide doesn't already do just as well or better.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
There is nothing the Stormsurge brings to the table that the Riptide doesn't already do just as well or better.

I agree, in this case it seems the designers forgot how to do their job. Especially since they're usually so specific about naming conventions.

Also, your avatar is quite apt for your post.

 McNinja wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
There is nothing the Stormsurge brings to the table that the Riptide doesn't already do just as well or better.

I agree, in this case it seems the designers forgot how to do their job. Especially since they're usually so specific about naming conventions.

Also, your avatar is quite apt for your post.

Happens more often than I would like to admit.

I suppose the ability to bring Str D is okay, but at such short range, is it even worth it?

So I had the chance to test the SS quite intensively, and all I can say is:
- Get the big gun, don't waste your time with the shotgun.
- Deploy the anchors turn 1.
- Treat the SS as a compact FW gunline when choosing targets.
- ???
- Profit!

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 McNinja wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
There is nothing the Stormsurge brings to the table that the Riptide doesn't already do just as well or better.

I agree, in this case it seems the designers forgot how to do their job. Especially since they're usually so specific about naming conventions.

Also, your avatar is quite apt for your post.

Happens more often than I would like to admit.

I suppose the ability to bring Str D is okay, but at such short range, is it even worth it?

Almost. It would have been sweet if they made it Jetpack GC, so you could move 12", hit them with the D shots, then back out. Right now it's only worth it for the 4 pulse driver shots you get when stabilized.

I've had the opportunity to try out both weapons only once, but it seems like the range coupled with the size of the blast for the main weapon is going to offer more damage potential over the course of the game.

While it's advertised as a titan-killer, that's not it's main goal. The amount of str 5 ap 5 shots it can pump out will devastate anything t5 or lower with relative ease at a longer range than our firewarriors can reproduce. Each opponent has revered the Stormsurge as a viable threat on the table by the end of the game.

Ok so let's put it this way:
For 430pts you get a ranged monster with a 4+ inv, skyfire and interceptor.
From turn 2 you can target up to 8 different targets with all your str 5 shots and a load of blasts.
At this moment of time the str 10 blast is a pulse weapon so can fire an additional shot with the ethereal storm of fire.

Let's compare this to a riptides who can fire a large blast which might hurt himself, to shoot his secondary which half the time is a fusion blaster so out of range, and can hurt himself with the nova.

2 riptides can give you from range either 6 str 7 ap 2 shots or 2 large blasts which when tank hunting require a nova.

You get from the storm surge potentially 4 str 10 ap 2 large blasts from turn 2 with ethereal bubble at 36 inch range or 2 at 72. You don't need to worry about nova because it's always str 10 and it's ordinance.
You have a 4++ which isn't as good as the 3++ but again you ALWAYS HAVE it and don't lose a wound for failing a 3+.
Then you get sms and burst cannon so double the secondary which can shoot twice WITHOUT losing a wound for it.
Oh and ontop of that you also get 8d6 str 5 shots and 4 missiles because why not.

Riptides with skyfire and ion and ewo cost you 420pts for two. 10 pts more and you double the firepower....so tell me how a riptides is better exactly apart from perhaps it's durability?

Oh and I forgot to mention that for 3 markelight tokens, your entire loadout ignores cover and increases your bs to 4 against one of your targets. For the riptides, that effects just 1 blast weapon and an sms or whatnot.

Honestly screw riptides I'm having a unit of Stormsurges which can intercept grav cents off the board and laughs at tyrants before they get in range (good luck not dieing to 16 d6 str 5 shots lol) who needs jump shoot jump when you have 48 inch range

I think I'd just give it EWO and use it as a big scary deterrent to stop people deep striking and generally getting close to my gunline, initially i was tempted to give it VT as well but most of its weapons are blasts so maybe not.

Now that we know the four destroyer missiles are D str AP 1 (when using 1 marker light), the stormsurge will be in every one of my games

Right how are people not thinking about the the 4 d missiles. That alone greatly ups it's usability.

Stormsurge has multiple options and offers flexibility because of that. It is just strong enough you can't ignore it and as the counters to it are 24 inch range you can immediately hit back with everything you have.

The weapon philosophy actually does fit the Tau... just not what those weapons are mounted on. Weathering fire that will eventually add up.

Honestly it is sad Tau players are complaining about it (for non-fluff/aesthetic reasons).

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Right how are people not thinking about the the 4 d missiles. That alone greatly ups it's usability.

Especially since it can fire all 4 missiles in one turn at 4 different targets and with a marker light token they become str d!

Spencley wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Right how are people not thinking about the the 4 d missiles. That alone greatly ups it's usability.

Especially since it can fire all 4 missiles in one turn at 4 different targets and with a marker light token they become str d!

Whoa...wait...what??? How does that happen? Is that a rumor? I didn't see that in the WD for the stormsurge...

 necron99 wrote:

Spencley wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Right how are people not thinking about the the 4 d missiles. That alone greatly ups it's usability.

Especially since it can fire all 4 missiles in one turn at 4 different targets and with a marker light token they become str d!

Whoa...wait...what??? How does that happen? Is that a rumor? I didn't see that in the WD for the stormsurge...

Yes, someone has the codex and answered questions. The 4 destroyer missiles all become Str D, you just have to use a marker light for each one. Since it is a GC, it can fire all its weapons each at a different target. AKA, first turn you can basically kill 3-4 things with just the missiles lol

notredameguy10 wrote:

Spoiler:

 necron99 wrote:

Spencley wrote:

 Hawkeye888 wrote:
Right how are people not thinking about the the 4 d missiles. That alone greatly ups it's usability.

Especially since it can fire all 4 missiles in one turn at 4 different targets and with a marker light token they become str d!

Whoa...wait...what??? How does that happen? Is that a rumor? I didn't see that in the WD for the stormsurge...

Yes, someone has the codex and answered questions. The 4 destroyer missiles all become Str D, you just have to use a marker light for each one. Since it is a GC, it can fire all its weapons each at a different target. AKA, first turn you can basically kill 3-4 things with just the missiles lol

Also due to the Hunter Contingent rule, you can have a buffmander give a Stormsurge reroll to hit and ignore cover on their primary target.

Are the D missiles blast? Either way, enjoy killing my 3 point Grots in my artillery units. Orks can deal with it.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Are the D missiles blast? Either way, enjoy killing my 3 point Grots in my artillery units. Orks can deal with it.

No not blast.

Can they also deal with 8D6 str 5/Ap5 missiles, 2 Str 10, AP2 Large Blasts each turn in addition lol

I would definitely beg to differ. The riptide does not already do what the Stormsurge can do.

Typical riptide costs with an IA/Stims/EWO is 225pts, has Gets Hot problems on its blast, only S8 AP2 or S9 AP2 Ord when nova charged. Riptide is vulnerable to instant death from a variety of methods

For basically twice the cost, you get a Stormsurge that not only fires just as many pi plates via Stabilizers WITHOUT the gets hot problem, but theyre S10 and Ordnance on its own. And he can fire them at different targets because of Stabilizers wording saying its literally a second shooting action, both meaning it needs more ML and it can change targets.
Thats just the main gun. Not to mention the gakload of missiles that will always be fired at troops due to GMC splitfire power. 8D6 Clusters and 8 SMS is a lot of dice, add an Airburster if theyre 18" away.
The T6/3+ armor factor means nothing. It still has a 4++ and FNP to back up its 8 wounds and is immune to any form of instant death.

There is no way Riptides do its job better. And i didnt even mention the D Missiles.

I played a 3300pt game against Necrons with this thing and it almost single handedly won me the game. It killed both his monoliths, even after wiffing 3 missiles, butchered dozens of immortals/destroyers, and would have killed his Ctan if i didnt wanna see that thing charge me (we already said i won at that point anyway).

Anyone who doesnt drop stabilizers and fires 2 S10 AP2 blasts, 8D6 Missiles, 8 SMS, and 2 Airbursters a turn is wasting their time. Its "shotgun" is a terrible gun as it basically removes the Stabilizers from the game since its range is so bad.

 PipeAlley wrote:
Are the D missiles blast? Either way, enjoy killing my 3 point Grots in my artillery units. Orks can deal with it.

No sane player would expend a Str D shot on something they know to be cheap or easily replaceable. You fire a D shot at something like a Monolith or Leman Russ.

In the case of orks, i'd be firing them at wagons, walkers, or if theyre not in the game, trukks/bikes.

D weapons are probably the least effective against biker ork armies. The only Str D blast is forgeworld or boxcars on a SAG

notredameguy10 wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
Are the D missiles blast? Either way, enjoy killing my 3 point Grots in my artillery units. Orks can deal with it.

No not blast.

Can they also deal with 8D6 str 5/Ap5 missiles, 2 Str 10, AP2 Large Blasts each turn in addition lol

but its irrelevant because your going to be using them to basically gut whole armies of aggressive armor and mc's which is just as productive as leveling their infantry with plates. the stormsurge is pretty damn ridiculous between them and the pieplate spam available to the tau already there basically going to either leave so little left of your army that you wont be productive at all, or their going to just kill you outright by the bottom of turn 2.

the hard counter to the tau is basically invisible spam as your offset a lot of the initial damage or you force them to sit on their biggest guns until later in the game, but by then they may not be in a position to use them. so basically eldar magic spam and tzeentch flying circus. and here i was thinking we would escape the meta set down in 6th edition, oh what a fool i was for thinking wed left behind the broken lists of the worst edition of 40k ever printed

The stormsurge should just sit back and use its long range s10 ap2 large blasts. They will do more damage than the s D weapon. If you need to take care of an opposing wraithknight just pump your D missiles into him turn one. I think the missiles are what makes the stormsurge so good and will probably be the unsung heroes of a lot of games, taking care of big threats early before they can do any damage.

As for the Coordinated fire special rule, the English version says: "Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill. "

So I not so sure that abilities from the command and control node can be transferred.

 lambsandlions wrote:
The stormsurge should just sit back and use its long range s10 ap2 large blasts. They will do more damage than the s D weapon. If you need to take care of an opposing wraithknight just pump your D missiles into him turn one. I think the missiles are what makes the stormsurge so good and will probably be the unsung heroes of a lot of games, taking care of big threats early before they can do any damage.

As for the Coordinated fire special rule, the English version says: "Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill. "

So I not so sure that abilities from the command and control node can be transferred.

To me that sounds like it would be. If it affects one unit of the 3, it affects all three, similar to how Markerlights are supposed to work - one unit can expend markerlights for the various enhancements - only now when one unit expends a ML, it affects all three units that are firing.

lambsandlions wrote:The stormsurge should just sit back and use its long range s10 ap2 large blasts. They will do more damage than the s D weapon. If you need to take care of an opposing wraithknight just pump your D missiles into him turn one. I think the missiles are what makes the stormsurge so good and will probably be the unsung heroes of a lot of games, taking care of big threats early before they can do any damage.

As for the Coordinated fire special rule, the English version says: "Whenever a unit from a Hunter Contingent selects a target in the shooting phase, any number of other units from the same Detachment who can still shoot can add their firepower to the attack. These units must shoot the same target, resolving their shots as if they were a single unit - this includes markerlight abilities. When 3 or more units combine their firepower, the firing models add 1 to their Ballistic Skill. "

So I not so sure that abilities from the command and control node can be transferred.

McNinja wrote:
To me that sounds like it would be. If it affects one unit of the 3, it affects all three, similar to how Markerlights are supposed to work - one unit can expend markerlights for the various enhancements - only now when one unit expends a ML, it affects all three units that are firing.

Ya, they resolve their shots as if they were a single unit. Any unit wide rule that apply during those shots would buff them/trigger.