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First x-wing event coming up and unsure on a list to take.

So my 3 choices are.

Redline : punisher : plasma torpedoes, assault missiles, extra munitions, autothrusters and fire control system

Darkcurse

Backstabber

2x obsidian tie fighters.

List number 2 is

Leebo :yt2400: Heavy laser cannon, recon specialist, antipursuit lasers, lone wolf

2x Y wings with Twin Laser Turrets.

And list 3 is,

2x gold squadron y-wings Twin Laser turrets
2x grey squadron y-wings Twin laser turrets.

Come on dakkarites help me out =]

List 3 is fairly stock massed twin laser turrets.

2 grey & 2 gold will give you an edge in mirror-matches, but without R2 astromechs you're slow around the board.

List 2 is so-so. A heavy laser cannon is nice but on a YT2400 the option of the outrider title is so good that it's almost an automatic choice. A turreted 4-die cannon is just awesome.

Y-wings with TLTs are nice backup - they have the reach to engage without compromising lone wolf


List 1 is nice. It depends on whether Redline can empty his missile tubes before he (inevitably) dies, but 4 TIE fighters is a half-decent swarm.

Im very new only played a couple of games. So out of the lists mentioned which would be more easily played for a rookie.

And yeah the yt2400 i was thinking more abput using HLC at range then when fighters got close switch to primary turret for 360 coverage.

You can't, the Outrider title disables your primary permanently. Hence the term "doughnut hole."

I'd run the YT-2400 and Y TLT list for a new player.
As Azreal13 said, you lose the ability to use a 'normal' turret when you take the Outrider title. I'd keep the HCL, drop the Antipersuit lasers... and go with Dash instead. Try your best to fly in Triangle formation... spaced so that if a ship gets into the doughnut of one, the other two have it at range 2.
Keep in mind... with Secondary Weapons no one gets the benefit of range. No extra green dice at range 3 and no extra red dice at range 1. That is true of all of your TLT and HLC shots. The Y-wings still have their primary, forward facing arc though.

 Azreal13 wrote:
You can't, the Outrider title disables your primary permanently. Hence the term "doughnut hole."

I'm pretty sure he was describing why he left the title off. "Use the HLC at range, but use the primary weapon turret when enemy fighters get close".

Yeah... I didn't see that the Title wasn't on the ship.
You want the title. Sure, it's 5 points but... you want the title.

Yeah... Run this:
Dash, Title, Mangler + Predator or Push The Limit
2x Gold , R2 Astromech + TLT

Fly in formation, barrel roll with Dash to let them have better shots at the Y-Wings.
Shoot with the Y-Wings first to strip off tokens and then hit them with the Mangler.

All the title does is stop me using primary weapons and creates the doughnut if I use the HLC without it I can use either gun??

 Lokki wrote:
All the title does is stop me using primary weapons and creates the doughnut if I use the HLC without it I can use either gun??

But then you can't use the HLC out of Arc. This is way better than getting a 3 die ranged attack, and a 2 die otherwise attack. Also, barrel rolling changes your position by a whole range band.

Yes, but you can only fire the HLC inside the primary fire arc, not a full 360.

Nothing illegal about that, but not optimal.

Honestly, the whole YT2400 set up in that list feels a little arbitrary.

Leebo synergises extremely well with Determination, with two other ships (both with high HP so not going to disappear quickly) Lone Wolf won't work nearly as often as you may think.

APL only trigger if someone flies into you, so therefore you're relying on someone else's negative skill in order to generate a collision, then the roll of the dice to maybe inflict a hit, that makes them not reliable enough for a competitive list, generally.

Personally, assuming you're running Leebo because you don't want to use Dash, I'd go

Leebo
Determination
Mangler
Chewbacca
Outrider (48)

2 X Gold Sqdn + TLT

That's 96 points, and I'd likely spend the remaining 4 on an EU for the Outrider.

This gives three turrets and capitalises on Leebos ability to tank plenty of damage.

Note, that's the list I'd run using the ships you've used, Dash is a much stronger prospect in a competitive environment.

Why is dash better competitivly?

Because higher PS is generally better across the board, and the ability to fly into obstacles with no penalty is very forgiving, especially if you're new to the game or new to competition and may make mistakes.

Note he doesn't let you off shooting if you park on a rock, but allows you to move over them, not take damage and not lose your action which in turn lets you barrel roll, or boost if suitably equipped, if you do accidentally park in one.

This is really handy on a large base, and allows you to be very aggressive with your obstacle placement, possibly making life hard for your opponent, while without having to worry about obstacles or fire arcs, you can just cruise around doing whatever you feel you need to.

 Azreal13 wrote:

Note he doesn't let you off shooting if you park on a rock, but allows you to move over them, not take damage and not lose your action which in turn lets you barrel roll, or boost if suitably equipped, if you do accidentally park in one.

Note: most competitive players run debris wit Dash- you don't get stressed with him, but you get to shoot off them, so you ignore them except for obstruction.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Because higher PS is generally better across the board, and the ability to fly into obstacles with no penalty is very forgiving, especially if you're new to the game or new to competition and may make mistakes.

Note he doesn't let you off shooting if you park on a rock, but allows you to move over them, not take damage and not lose your action which in turn lets you barrel roll, or boost if suitably equipped, if you do accidentally park in one.

This is really handy on a large base, and allows you to be very aggressive with your obstacle placement, possibly making life hard for your opponent, while without having to worry about obstacles or fire arcs, you can just cruise around doing whatever you feel you need to.

This. Dash is good because he's ridiculously maneuverable, hits hard, and has enough HP to tank the limited amount of shooting he'll be taking in return. He's not unbeatable (higher-PS aces, action denial, etc, can all kill him very quickly) but there's a reason why he was a defining part of the competitive metagame. The other YT-2400 pilots just don't have the PS or ability to treat obstacles as empty space that Dash has, and that makes them much weaker arc dodgers while simultaneously making the donut hole problem much worse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:
Note: most competitive players run debris wit Dash- you don't get stressed with him, but you get to shoot off them, so you ignore them except for obstruction.

And this. Your other ships may care about debris, but from Dash's point of view you're playing on a table with three obstacles at most (fewer if your opponent brought any debris!). Except really it's even better than only having three obstacles, since Dash can fly through those obstacles without any penalty and use them to prevent enemy ships from following him.

Right so a revised list for the event;

Dash:Yt2400: lone wolf, HLC, lando calrission

4x Tala squadron Z95

So use lando to generate focus and evade tokens. Dash ability to drive through floating obstacles and shoot anyone unlucky enough to be in front.

4 z95 acting like a mini swarm or 2x pairs and just cause havoc at range 3 from dash?

Or hsve 2x grey squad Ywings with TLT instead of z95

I still feel you've too many ships for Lone Wolf to be a viable option.

I ran a Scum list at the tourney I recently attended, and in the early stages of development it had Ndru Shalack (or however it's spelled) with LW in it. In the end he got cut, because despite his own ability synergising brilliantly with LW, in a three ship list there were just too many occasions where he was just too close to one or the other.

You're proposing a 5 ship list, I'd expect it to be near impossible to get a bonus from LW for large parts of the game.

The only list I lost handily to that day was, in fact, a Fat Dash list (I had other losses, but by very small margins, the Dash list handed me my arse.)

It was a few weeks ago, but IIRC it was

Dash
Push The Limit
Mangler
Kyle Katarn
Outrider
Engine Upgrade

Hugely mobile, great action efficiency, no worries about fire arc or obstacles (he was, as mentioned, using debris fields) and inherently quite tanky.

The player used an elite B Wing (Keyan Farlander w PTL and other stuff) but there's lots of ways to fill out the list, some cheap escorts wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

So swap lone wolf for intimidation with the 4x Z95?

Or have 2x Ywings with TLT?

 Lokki wrote:
So swap lone wolf for intimidation with the 4x Z95?

No, that's a terrible upgrade. The best way to run Dash is the 58 point Super Dash:

Dash Rendar (36)
Push the Limit (3)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Kyle Katarn (3)
Engine Upgrade (4)
Outrider (5)

Total: 58
View in Yet Another Squad Builder

This turns Dash into a hard hitting arc dodger with awesome action economy. When you clear a stress, you get a focus token (which is not an action do it works even if you are double stressed or collide with another ship) which allows you to effectively perform three actions a turn. The combination of boost and barrel roll make him ridiculously mobile. It's possible to knock some points from him and run a moderately Fat Dash, but at the very least you want, no need, HLC and the title.

Or have 2x Ywings with TLT?

Dash pairs very well with a high PS ace. Corran with VI and R2-D2 is his usual partner in crime. Defensive Poe with VI, R5-P9, and Autothrusters is a nice choice as well.

Dash render

HLC, push the limit, Kyle kataarn,

Aires Cracken
Wingman, cluster missile

2x Tala squadron Z95

This look better?

 Lokki wrote:
Dash render

HLC, push the limit, Kyle kataarn,

Aires Cracken
Wingman, cluster missile

2x Tala squadron Z95

This look better?

Still don't have the Title.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Lokki wrote:
Dash render

HLC, push the limit, Kyle kataarn,

Aires Cracken
Wingman, cluster missile

2x Tala squadron Z95

This look better?

Still don't have the Title.

Fully aware and don't want it if I'm honest. The yt2400 already has a turret primary weapon that has 360 targetin

A primary two weapon.

To put that in context, that means 75% of the arc has the same damage output as a TIE Fighter.

It is a massive investment of points, with or without the title, without the title you're just offering your opponent a massive weakness to exploit.

Fel will laugh at it, he'll simply take up station and blast you with 3 or 4 dice a turn, while you're trying to damage an Ag 3 ship, likely with a Stealth Device, Auto Thrusters, an evade and focus tokens.

 Lokki wrote:
Dash render

HLC, push the limit, Kyle kataarn,

Aires Cracken
Wingman, cluster missile

2x Tala squadron Z95

This look better?

No.

Fully aware and don't want it if I'm honest. The yt2400 already has a turret primary weapon that has 360 targetin

A PWT with two attack dice, meaning it's worthless to a ship with three agility at range 3 or anything with Autothrusters. You don't want to be at range 1 flying as Dash; he isn't nearly as defensive as Fat Han, he has less health, and a weaker weapon. The ship, especially with Dash flying it, is designed to work at range 3 with a 360 degree cannon. You're wasting points fielding Dash without giving him the ability to kill things.

The only time you should ever not use the title is if you are running a Wild Space Fringer (or anyone else but Dash) as support for a Super Dash.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I ran a Scum list at the tourney I recently attended, and in the early stages of development it had Ndru Shalack (or however it's spelled) with LW in it. In the end he got cut, because despite his own ability synergising brilliantly with LW, in a three ship list there were just too many occasions where he was just too close to one or the other.

Lone wolf isn't as bad on Dash. N'dru's problem is that he has to point his arc at a target to do anything, so it's very hard to give him a shot without converging on the rest of your ships. Dash, on the other hand, can just fly away with the 360* HLC and take range-3 shots all day. As long as you're fairly disciplined about keeping the z-95s (or whatever other meatshields you take) in formation you should have plenty of space for Dash.

It was precisely that issue I encountered with N'duru, but if the OP persists with not equipping the title, he'll have the same issue.

 Azreal13 wrote:
It was precisely that issue I encountered with N'duru, but if the OP persists with not equipping the title, he'll have the same issue.

Oh, yeah, I was assuming that you'd have the title on Dash. You'd have to be insane not to.

So, use Redline + mini swarm or dash with z95's hmm

 Lokki wrote:
So, use Redline + mini swarm or dash with z95's hmm

Definitely Redline + mini swarm. It's not a great list, but Dash without the title is just suicidally bad. So take the one that at least has a chance of winning games.