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If I have a eldar d-cannon platform (2 guardians and a 2 wound platform) and a grav weapon fires at them what would the cannon wound on.? Would it be 5+ (the guardians save) or 3+ (the cannons save). Since there's no rules for majority armour. I know that people house rule stuff and what not but I'm not a fan of house rules, I want to no if there's a real rule.

Dman137 wrote:
Since there's no rules for majority armour.

Dman137 wrote:
I want to no if there's a real rule.

You've answered your own question. There is no way to RAW resolve a Grav attack against a unit with multiple armour saves.

The closest analogy, which most people base their house-rules on is the Multiple Toughness rules, but Artillery (like the D-cannon) already overide that rule with their own (i.e. using the gun's toughness). Note the same problem applies to Eldar Monofilament weapons (which wound against Initiative).

No. If you fire a Grav weapon at a unit with mixed armor saves there is no way to progress the game. You and your opponent stand there for an indefinite length of time.

First person to pick up their models loses.

raverrn wrote:
No. If you fire a Grav weapon at a unit with mixed armor saves there is no way to progress the game. You and your opponent stand there for an indefinite length of time.

First person to pick up their models loses.

you're helpful

Dman137 wrote:

raverrn wrote:
No. If you fire a Grav weapon at a unit with mixed armor saves there is no way to progress the game. You and your opponent stand there for an indefinite length of time.

First person to pick up their models loses.

you're helpful

Read the rules for "Shooting at Artillery"(p64) and how you're supposed to allocate Wounds in general(p34 and 35).

It would be based on the closest model to the firing unit. So if you had a crew member closest to the Grav-Weapon being fired? The crew member takes the hit, counting as Toughness of the artillery piece(while it is alive) but using his own armor value.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Dman137 wrote:

raverrn wrote:
No. If you fire a Grav weapon at a unit with mixed armor saves there is no way to progress the game. You and your opponent stand there for an indefinite length of time.

First person to pick up their models loses.

you're helpful

Read the rules for "Shooting at Artillery"(p64) and how you're supposed to allocate Wounds in general(p34 and 35).

It would be based on the closest model to the firing unit. So if you had a crew member closest to the Grav-Weapon being fired? The crew member takes the hit, counting as Toughness of the artillery piece(while it is alive) but using his own armor value.

you have to roll to wound first, and it's says for grav weapons you roll to wound based on the armour of the target not model so it's still stuck on which one it uses 5+ or 3+

 Quanar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Since there's no rules for majority armour.

Dman137 wrote:
I want to no if there's a real rule.

You've answered your own question. There is no way to RAW resolve a Grav attack against a unit with multiple armour saves.

The closest analogy, which most people base their house-rules on is the Multiple Toughness rules, but Artillery (like the D-cannon) already overide that rule with their own (i.e. using the gun's toughness). Note the same problem applies to Eldar Monofilament weapons (which wound against Initiative).

This pretty much has it all in one. There is no defined rule, so it is recommended by people to use the next closest thing.

The Artillery type does confuse things a little, though.

Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Since there's no rules for majority armour.

Dman137 wrote:
I want to no if there's a real rule.

You've answered your own question. There is no way to RAW resolve a Grav attack against a unit with multiple armour saves.

The closest analogy, which most people base their house-rules on is the Multiple Toughness rules, but Artillery (like the D-cannon) already overide that rule with their own (i.e. using the gun's toughness). Note the same problem applies to Eldar Monofilament weapons (which wound against Initiative).

This pretty much has it all in one. There is no defined rule, so it is recommended by people to use the next closest thing.

The Artillery type does confuse things a little, though.

thoughness of the artillery has nothing to do with shooting grav at it since Harv doesn't use thoughness to wound. If anything your better going off majority models in the unit (so 2 crew and 1 platform) so you would use the crews save. But then you still run into the same problem against things like broadsides that have mission drones

Dman137 wrote:

Charistoph wrote:

 Quanar wrote:

Dman137 wrote:
Since there's no rules for majority armour.

Dman137 wrote:
I want to no if there's a real rule.

You've answered your own question. There is no way to RAW resolve a Grav attack against a unit with multiple armour saves.

The closest analogy, which most people base their house-rules on is the Multiple Toughness rules, but Artillery (like the D-cannon) already overide that rule with their own (i.e. using the gun's toughness). Note the same problem applies to Eldar Monofilament weapons (which wound against Initiative).

This pretty much has it all in one. There is no defined rule, so it is recommended by people to use the next closest thing.

The Artillery type does confuse things a little, though.

thoughness of the artillery has nothing to do with shooting grav at it since Harv doesn't use thoughness to wound. If anything your better going off majority models in the unit (so 2 crew and 1 platform) so you would use the crews save. But then you still run into the same problem against things like broadsides that have mission drones

Its not about the toughness, its about the fact that mechanically you use the artillery model's stats to wound when shooting. You are already going to be making up rules to solve the problem so why not make them match to the already existing intentions of the game (ie to wound on the artillery's stats, or in the case of mixed saves wounding on the harder to wound save).

Dman137 wrote:
thoughness of the artillery has nothing to do with shooting grav at it since Harv doesn't use thoughness to wound. If anything your better going off majority models in the unit (so 2 crew and 1 platform) so you would use the crews save. But then you still run into the same problem against things like broadsides that have mission drones

Toughness has as much to do with shooting grav at Artillery as it does shooting at a Wolf Scout unit with a Power Armour Wolf Guard, Terminator Wolf Priest, and IG Commisar in the unit (4 different Armour Saves).

There is no rule to cover it in either situation. However, there are rules that cover this with Toughness so using the same standards is easiest with HIWPI, and how I recommend to play it.

Majority armour is the better of the two paths. Other wise you introduce a inbetween step that doesn't exist that allows sniping.

If your opponent is insisting on rolling model for model just just the hurricanes first. It quickens up the game.

I would roll it on the 3+ save.

Interesting quandary. I guess I would argue that majority armor would be used. Thanks! Juggernaut Lord escorted by Spawn just became even better. Now it counters grav spam.

i'd talk with mo opponent because when this happens, some opponents like whatever has the closest model's armor since that who normally takes the wound, while the majority armour value works for others. But that is just HWIPI

Opponents that like "closest armour" also have to explain why a unit affect (rolling to wound) suddenly cares a feth what the closest model is.

Well id ask you if I shot at that unit who id hit 1st, you would probably say the 3+ armour then id shoot you with grav and if you complained id have a serious problem with it as you are just trying to cheat so you would have to make that call yourself, or roll for the closest model.

THe answer is "noone" to that question

You hit units. Not models

You allocate WOUNDS to the nearest model (in the base case) but not hits.

Majority armour save is the least change needed to get the rules to qork, and was used for majority leadership for the necron flamer template for example.

Due to how Artillery normally works with To Wound rolls, HIWPI is while a gun is still alive, roll To Wound against the guns save.

For all other units, roll To Wound against majority save.

I just see it as word replacement. When they say it wounds on Armor instead of Toughness, you just swap out Toughness and replace it with Armor in all rule instances. Which meets the requirement of "Armor instead of Toughness". And also creates Wounding rules that affect "majority Armor of the unit".

Arkain, except with artillery, where when we do the replacement we use the artillery's armor save. Which honestly I'm fine with, even though ork artillery could not otherwise be wounded by grav with the majority armor rule.

FratHammer wrote:
Arkain, except with artillery, where when we do the replacement we use the artillery's armor save. Which honestly I'm fine with, even though ork artillery could not otherwise be wounded by grav with the majority armor rule.

Why can Ork artillery not be hurt by grav using majority save?

 Happyjew wrote:
Why can Ork artillery not be hurt by grav using majority save?

The Grot crew don't have armour saves - in which case Grav would still wound on a 6.