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+ HQ (160pts) +

Death Rider Company Command Squad (160pts)
Death Rider Colonel - p axe
4x Death Rider Veteran

+ Elites (362pts) +

Death Korps Combat Engineer Squad with Hades (110pts)
4x Engineer
Hades Breaching Drill
Watchmaster

Death Korps Field Artillery Battery (126pts)
Field Artillery [Heavy Quad Launcher]
4x Crew
Field Artillery [Heavy Quad Launcher]
4x Crew

Death Korps Field Artillery Battery (126pts)
Field Artillery [Heavy Quad Launcher]
4x Crew
Field Artillery [Heavy Quad Launcher]
4x Crew

+ Troops (335pts) +

Death Korps Infantry Platoon (335pts)
Death Korps Heavy Weapons Squad
3x Autocannon Team

Death Korps Infantry Squad
9x Guardsman
Watchmaster
Death Korps Infantry Squad
9x Guardsman
Watchmaster
Death Korps Infantry Squad
9x Guardsman
Watchmaster

Death Korps Platoon Command Squad
4x Guardsman
Platoon Commander


+ Fast Attack (370pts) +

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (190pts)
Death Rider Squadron
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster - p axe
Death Rider Squadron
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster - p Axe

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (180pts)
Death Rider Squadron
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster m bombs
Death Rider Squadron
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster - m bombs

+ Heavy Support (230pts) +

Leman Russ Tank Squadron (230pts)
Conqueror x2 (no upgrades at all)

and then like an Aegis defence line.


Pretty simple - 2 cheapo tough tanks screen horses and men (while a squad or 2 remains as gun line to protect artillery as needed). Hades pops up to tie up or mess up their artillery.

Do I need more Hades? How badly are planes going to mess me up?

DKOK are not the most competitive - but this is a list to try and make their synergies work.

I will be back to fix my horrible formatting and editing

Love it.. If you want to follow a theme go with it make no compromises especially for anti air


Automatically Appended Next Post:
One thing I would change, keep the conquerors separate so they can't all be targeted at once

Cheers - little re-edit complete.

yeah - I think I've got to go for it. Maybe if I take it down the club and know air will be happening just sub out auto cannon teams and a infantry squad for a couple of hydra plaforms (or maybe one depending).

I'll keep my tanks apart - would throwing a centaur in add to my width screen or is this not worth it?

I'm a a bit half and half about including tanks at all because non-spamming Armour can be tricky - but then again conquerors are so cheap @ 115 a pop.

Im not sure what im meant to be doing with my hades - do i charge with it if I see men or just vehicles?

I myself run conquerors in my renegades list, three all in seperate squadrons. At least with conquerors they can manvouver alot better than standard russes, possibily evading death in the process. Mine are there mainly as distractions and mobile cover for my platoons, and to distract shots from my command squad in the chimera. One of the best load outs for them is said to be multi-melta sponsons, but keeping them cheap and cheerful I think is awesome.

Thanks for advice Intercessor.

I looked at some of your past lists (renegades) and there seems to be some parallel issues between them and DKOK.

Over there - Yack described conquerors as 'anemic LRBTs' - in a sense he's right, but in another way thats kind of what you want it to be.

In the club games I play with my guard (basically the standard melta vets+chimera and LRBT and punishes + pask) - usually I shoot the battle cannon at 3+ or sub save troops and light vehicles (then some cover (or some nonsense in the eldar codex or what have you) or whatever) leaves me with roughly 5-6 kills in my experience. A conqueror will leave me with 3-4, or so I would imagine - 3 conqs cost 45 pts more than 2 LRBT - for that - I get a another tank and the hull points and separate target selection preferences that confers for roughly the same damage output + accuracy (debatable) + being able to scoot away from melta etc much more swiftly. I lose the armour pen fun of ordinance.

Apart from those above arguments - they are fast enough to be a useful synergy with my horses. Further - Spamming 4-5 14 front armour in a 1.5k game is pretty good stuff .

In a sense I think you always have to spam armour if one uses armour in the current meta or deep strikers or specialist tank hunters find it too easy to just 'solve the problem'.

Referring back to the list I could remove autocannon teams plus regular men for this (and maybe nip-tuck a few things here there).

Also I dont think I understand my hades - isnt it just going to die super quick since my majority toughness is 3? (even though 4++ on emerging/re-emerging is fun. I think Im meant to pop up on the flank only.

+++

waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaait a minuite - can I just turn the hades to always be keeping the engineers hidden? (thus using its toughness?) Such a weird rule set.

really like the list, very fluffy looking and nice to see someone making use of the Death Riders!

My only concern is you lack any real anti-tank and anyway to really deal with high toughness creatures, I don't think STR5 on the lances is going to be enough.

Have you considered maybe giving your naked Infantry Squads melta guns?

also I would try and max out the engineer squad and give them a melta or at least a flamer so they can do some damage when they pop out, they get a 4++ save when they emerge but Id still try to max the unit so they have a change of getting the assault off, I'm almost wanting 2 full units i think as the enemy is gonna try and concentrate all firepower on these guys when they come in.

Thanks – I always roughly try and keep some fluff in mind. However, I do want a little bit more stiffness in my rod – I don’t know if you ever glance at the recent tournament rankings for guard but they consistently place bottom, DKOK are considered worse. So I am thinking carefully about my meta here. Though in the context of really really wanting DKOK and horses (theres a level at which you just cant fight these urges).
Despite all my flag waving for the conqueror above, Im not sure now whether its weight in death riders (7.6 horses) or men (14.375 surly grunts) is just going to do the job of killing and perhaps more importantly dying better. I note one of the characteristics of this army is that they do not blob and I am running MSU (mostly to confer the other benefits of horses – that is –multi-charge causing fear). This means a 10 man squad or 5 horse squad can get shot at and I can go to ground quite happily – which is especially nice if I have been smart using terrain and or ‘dig in order’ on front riders (twins nicely with ‘get back in the fight’) (okay lets be honest im not digging in horses) (but anyway – say someone decided to shoot their wave serpent detachment or their pask squad at them – who cares? They are a 5 man 10 wound squad of horses? @85ish points)

I take your note on anti-tank – the obvious solution is rapier. Not sure on the model. Will give it some thought. I do have meta bombs on some of my horses and all my men/horses have krak grenades – so armour 12 and sub (metal boxes particularly) can suck a fat one. Furthur even though my quad launchers are anti-infantry – a possible 4 (not unlikely 3) hits on the side of 11 and sub tanks is ‘a contribution’. IDK – you’re right – I’ll give it some thought. Meltas for the men is 10pts as you suggest, which is to be considered.
Nobody likes monstrous creatures in the guard army – massed lasguns do what they do but remember all my men also have krak grenades. Lets take 2 common backline monsters who wud want to kill my squishy artillery Mawlocs and winged daemon princes (with warp armour because few don’t take it).

10 Noble death korp throw kraks @ (not incl overwatch)
Mawloc
5 hit, 2.5 wound, 0.825 go unsaved
Mmmm ok
Daemon prince
3.33 hit, 2.19 wound, 0.72 go unsaved

Well turns out that sought of sucks more than I thought it might.

On the fliperdy flop 5 horses could spin round (lets assume I have not given watchkeeper a power axe (which I have) but anyway that’s about an extra wound if I did take it which I havnt(charitably)) and charge for 1.65 wounding HOW and 0.544 unsaved – then 3.63 normal lance hits because it has ws 9 and 1.815 wounds – even though this cuts through armour hes still a damon so 5++ = 1.197 unsaved + 0.544 from my HOW so charitable 2 wounds caused.
Now this may sounds a little rubbish as I require 4 wounds to kill it though remember I have spent 85pts on my little horse squad – he/she has spent circa 270pts. I might not even bother buble wrapping my artillery with men – my artillery is cheapish and if he spends that game clearing out 3 squads of 2 in the back then fine – I will use horses IF I want to solve that problem.

My current thoughts are leaning toward either easing back on armour and going mo horse and mo artillery ooooor get a feth of huge baneblade or malcador and junk. I will mull. There is a philosophical thing going on here where I’ve got to think less about damage and more about sacrificing pawns plus surviving and objective capturing. Ie – mayve I don’t have to key to open every lock?

I agree with you on the Riaper model, it doesn't look that aesthetically pleasing to me either :( What I'm currently doing is putting together a German Pak 40 from the Bolt Action game and replacing the barrel with a Lascannon form the Heavy weapon spruce. You just have to file down the back part of the Lascannon a little bit and it fits through the gun shield.

An Imperial Knight or Wraithknight is gonna give this army a hard time, honestly the DKOK list doesn't have any good way to deal with either of these unfortunately and they are gonna run into your lines and just stomp everything. Maybe consider enlisting the help of the Imperial Navy to help cover the advance of your assault, Its very fluffy and the flyers can harass and maybe even draw some fire away. A thunderbolt or avenger into the side of rear of a Imperial Knight will do a good chunk of damage and then maybe you can try finishing it off with your Artillery.

I have't played in a while, but I think in 7th edition, Barrage weapons don't automatically cause pinning anymore? Sort of makes the Thudd Guns not as awesome, I'd maybe drop a couple so you can take some medusas

I feel taking out the leman russes will also make it so all your opponents meltaguns are wasted shooting at infantry. shooting D weapons at lonely guardsmen make me laugh.

Having more infantry/sacrificing pawns is a good way to tie up stuff you don't want to fight like deathstars and such. The problem with DKOK infantry (which doesn't make a whole lot of sense) is they are so expensive points wise, for 2 squads of DKOK infantry, you can almost get 3 squads of regular guard infantry. its tough to make a infantry horde DKOK army which stinks :(

New List (1500pts)

Astra Militarum: IASoV - Death Korps of Krieg Siege Regiment (2015) (Krieg Death Rider Squadron)

HQ (160pts)

Death Rider Company Command Squad (160pts)
4x Death Rider Veteran
Death Rider Colonel
Laspistol, Power Axe, Warlord, Colonel

Elites (279pts)

Death Korps Field Artillery Battery (110pts)

3x Crew, Heavy Quad Launcher
3x Crew, Heavy Quad Launcher

4x Crew, Heavy Mortar

Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (53pts)

Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (53pts)


Troops (190pts)

Death Korps Infantry Platoon (190pts)

Death Korps Infantry Squad 1
Death Korps Infantry Squad 2
Death Korps Platoon Command Squad
Platoon Commander

Fast Attack (465pts)

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (285pts)

Death Rider Squadron 1
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Laspistol, Power Axe

Death Rider Squadron 2
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Power Axe

Death Rider Squadron 3
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Laspistol, Power Axe

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (180pts)
Death Rider Squadron

4x Death Rider 4
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Death Rider Squadron 5
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol, Melta Bombs

Heavy Support (356pts)

Death Korps Bombard Battery (140pts)
Colossus Bombard
Heavy Bolter

Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (108pts)
Artillery Carriage
5x Crew, Medusa Siege Cannon

Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (108pts)
Artillery Carriage
5x Crew, Medusa Siege Cannon

and an Aegis D Line

Im going to have to take the rapier - its too good not to take - maybe I can give it a nice base to improve it. Your method seems like the superior one though P knight.

Knights could be delt with by a few of these weapons now hopefully - I even think my melta bomb horses would do ok.

Barrage weapons do not auto pin (its a -1 ld or -2 if you are a quad cannon). I took your advice on this one.

I will later on in my life make a more tank dkok list i think --- just not now as I want alot and super heavy or none.

As you can see the list has swung much more towards BOMBARDMENT - has it sung too much do you think? Should I take somthing out for MORE HORSES / MEN?

Looks good!!! my only suggestion is to try and find points to give the Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer crew, an extra crew member. As they only come with one crew guy each.

If It was me, I'd switch the bombard for 2 earthshaker guns or a flier of some sort. But it depends on your meta and the abundance of foot infantry with 3+ saves, and the amount of cover you play with in your games.

let us know how it does!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's funny you mention doing a DKOK tank list, I'm actually in the middle of building one, so far I have about 25 Leman Russes, about 15 put together so far, I plan on using the Tank Armoured Company list from IA Vol1 Second edition. as Vanquishers with beast-hunter rounds look amazing! I tried making a post of my progress with putting together and painting all these tanks in the P&M fourm, but I can't for the life of me figure out how to upload pictures on this site lol

Cheers - much in line with your notes - my final list is as follows:

HQ (160pts)

Death Rider Company Command Squad (160pts)
4x Death Rider Veteran
Death Rider Colonel
Laspistol, Power Axe, Warlord, Colonel

Elites (216pts)

Death Korps Field Artillery Battery (110pts)
Field Artillery
3x Crew, Heavy Quad Launcher
Field Artillery
3x Crew, Heavy Quad Launcher

Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (53pts)
Rapier w/ Additional Crew
Death Korps Rapier Laser Destroyer Battery (53pts)
Rapier w/ Additional Crew

Troops (200pts)

Death Korps Infantry Platoon (200pts)
Death Korps Infantry Squad
Guard w/ Flamer, 8x Guardsman
Watchmaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
Death Korps Infantry Squad
Guard w/ Flamer, 8x Guardsman
Watchmaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
Death Korps Platoon Command Squad
4x Guardsman
Platoon Commander
Close Combat Weapon, Flak Armour, Laspistol

Fast Attack (445pts)

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (275pts)

Death Rider Squadron 1
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Laspistol, Power Axe
Death Rider Squadron 2
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Power Axe
Death Rider Squadron 3
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Death Korps Death Rider Platoon (170pts)
Death Rider Squadron 4
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol
Death Rider Squadron 5
4x Death Rider
Ridemaster
Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol

Heavy Support (375pts)

Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (75pts)
Artillery Carriage
4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon 1
Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (75pts)
Artillery Carriage
4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon 2
Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (75pts)
Artillery Carriage
4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon 3
Death Korps Heavy Artillery Battery (150pts)
Artillery Carriage
4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon 4
Artillery Carriage
4x Crew, Earthshaker Cannon 5
Fortifications and Stronghold Assault (2013) (Fortification Detachment) (100pts)
Fortification (100pts)
Aegis Defense Line (100pts)
Gun Emplacement with Quad-gun

So basically earthsaker artillery spam + horse-tastic-fun.

25 Russes sounds intense - would love to see your scheme. You can add pics as attachments in this thread actually.

I think this will be a stiff list and also fun to play. Deep strikers and flyers will be tough to kill, but hopefully sacrificial pawns and amount of stuff they have to kill will keep me running about scoring points and keeping the guns firing.

See attached first attempts at cavalry (the remainder - barring the earthshakers which I will take from basilisks will be DKOK)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Note: I am aware th light in these pics are not good and the models require clean up but you get the idea.