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Hello, pretty new player to the Daemon Codex, started adding them into my Chaos Space Marines for a little buffing. I can't believe how much they nerfed Heralds of Tzeentch with the new Psyker phase, has anyone been able to find a reasonable house rule or FAQ to fix this? No longer do psykers roll their leadership to cast a spell, so the Daemon of Tzeentch rule is completely useless. I wouldn't mind so much if they had at least given Daemon of Tzeentch some other purpose, but as it stands now there is nothing.

It matters against nids and perils.

The leadership buff for Daemons of Tzeentch is small peanuts compared to the incredible power of rerolling all saves that is also a part of the Daemon of Tzeentch special rule.

Oh I see, I was just looking at from the Daemon factory standpoint, 95 points for summoning is amazing, but it has become too random. It seems better to run two or three Sorcerers with spell familiars at 75 points each and reroll all my dice

Crimson Willy wrote:
Oh I see, I was just looking at from the Daemon factory standpoint, 95 points for summoning is amazing, but it has become too random. It seems better to run two or three Sorcerers with spell familiars at 75 points each and reroll all my dice

The problem with sorcerers for a daemon factory is

A) They are more expensive (they are 60 points to start as opposed to 45 and still only start as mastery lvl 1)
B) Aren't spamable as they take up a whole HQ slot instead of 4 to 1 HQ slot
C) Suffer perils on any doubles as they are not Demons which means that they will blow themselves up after 2-3 attempts of casting WC3 summoning powers
D) Are from a terrible codex

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Willy wrote:
Oh I see, I was just looking at from the Daemon factory standpoint, 95 points for summoning is amazing, but it has become too random. It seems better to run two or three Sorcerers with spell familiars at 75 points each and reroll all my dice

The problem with sorcerers for a daemon factory is

A) They are more expensive (they are 60 points to start as opposed to 45 and still only start as mastery lvl 1)
B) Aren't spamable as they take up a whole HQ slot instead of 4 to 1 HQ slot
C) Suffer perils on any doubles as they are not Demons which means that they will blow themselves up after 2-3 attempts of casting WC3 summoning powers
D) Are from a terrible codex

I absolutely agree, its just with the spell familiar they get to reroll their casting. Heralds of Tzeentch don't. Do Daemons not suffer perils of the warp? I'm new to Daemon codex, just run them as allies, so did i miss that rule?

Daemons suffer perils, but anything that isn't daemons suffers perils on any double when using malefic powers, like summoning.

Crimson Willy wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Willy wrote:
Oh I see, I was just looking at from the Daemon factory standpoint, 95 points for summoning is amazing, but it has become too random. It seems better to run two or three Sorcerers with spell familiars at 75 points each and reroll all my dice

The problem with sorcerers for a daemon factory is

A) They are more expensive (they are 60 points to start as opposed to 45 and still only start as mastery lvl 1)
B) Aren't spamable as they take up a whole HQ slot instead of 4 to 1 HQ slot
C) Suffer perils on any doubles as they are not Demons which means that they will blow themselves up after 2-3 attempts of casting WC3 summoning powers
D) Are from a terrible codex

I absolutely agree, its just with the spell familiar they get to reroll their casting. Heralds of Tzeentch don't. Do Daemons not suffer perils of the warp? I'm new to Daemon codex, just run them as allies, so did i miss that rule?

Its in the BRB explanation of Daemonolgy powers. For malefic daemonology, Daemons suffers perils like normal (on double 6's) while non-daemons suffer perils any any doubles.

Spell Familiars save you 1-2 WCs per attempt but the points you save on Heralds could just get you more Heralds to make up the WC difference. For example lets compare 3 Sorcerers w/ Spell Familiars to 4 Heralds (as that is basically the same amount of points)

~4 Heralds give you 12 WCs, plus the 1d6 per turn that gives you get 2 attempts at 7 dice for 77% chance of success
~3 Sorcerers give you 9 WCs. With the Spell Familar and the 1d6 per turn you get 2 attempts at 5 dice for 75% chance of success

So right there its clear the Heralds is better. Even with the Spell Familar you are getting the exact same rate of summoning as the Heralds are for the points except the heralds only took up a single HQ slot. However you can go even further because something to think about is the long term. While this is what the case is on face value remember that this is only on the first turn. If you star accounting for perils over time then you find that sorcerers are significantly worse. Because of the rate of perils you will probably lose a sorcerer every other turn or so. This means that on turn 3 and 4 you only are making 6 WCs and on turn 5+ you'll only be making 3 WCs. While the heralds will be maintaining 12 WCs every turn.

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Willy wrote:

 CrownAxe wrote:

Crimson Willy wrote:
Oh I see, I was just looking at from the Daemon factory standpoint, 95 points for summoning is amazing, but it has become too random. It seems better to run two or three Sorcerers with spell familiars at 75 points each and reroll all my dice

The problem with sorcerers for a daemon factory is

A) They are more expensive (they are 60 points to start as opposed to 45 and still only start as mastery lvl 1)
B) Aren't spamable as they take up a whole HQ slot instead of 4 to 1 HQ slot
C) Suffer perils on any doubles as they are not Demons which means that they will blow themselves up after 2-3 attempts of casting WC3 summoning powers
D) Are from a terrible codex

I absolutely agree, its just with the spell familiar they get to reroll their casting. Heralds of Tzeentch don't. Do Daemons not suffer perils of the warp? I'm new to Daemon codex, just run them as allies, so did i miss that rule?

Its in the BRB explanation of Daemonolgy powers. For malefic daemonology, Daemons suffers perils like normal (on double 6's) while non-daemons suffer perils any any doubles.

Spell Familiars save you 1-2 WCs per attempt but the points you save on Heralds could just get you more Heralds to make up the WC difference. For example lets compare 3 Sorcerers w/ Spell Familiars to 4 Heralds (as that is basically the same amount of points)

~4 Heralds give you 12 WCs, plus the 1d6 per turn that gives you get 2 attempts at 7 dice for 77% chance of success
~3 Sorcerers give you 9 WCs. With the Spell Familar and the 1d6 per turn you get 2 attempts at 5 dice for 75% chance of success

So right there its clear the Heralds is better. Even with the Spell Familar you are getting the exact same rate of summoning as the Heralds are for the points except the heralds only took up a single HQ slot. However you can go even further because something to think about is the long term. While this is what the case is on face value remember that this is only on the first turn. If you star accounting for perils over time then you find that sorcerers are significantly worse. Because of the rate of perils you will probably lose a sorcerer every other turn or so. This means that on turn 3 and 4 you only are making 6 WCs and on turn 5+ you'll only be making 3 WCs. While the heralds will be maintaining 12 WCs every turn.

Ah, i see!! Man good thing you told me that, i completely missed that in the rulebook, yea then looks like its nothing but heralds of tzeentch for me!