Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey,

We cannot solve it on other places, lets try here

Recently we had one problem with Nemesor and his warlord trait-changing skill.

This skill occurs in "start of turn" (each turn after first you can change warlord trait to any in start of the turn). So we had some problems if i start him in Night Scythe (reserves)

1) Can his skill be used (change warlord skill) while he is in reserves?
2) Does his warlord trait works from reserve (for example re-roll reserves rolls)?

I cannot find rule that forbid using skills from reserves, but there is tricky one - you cannot use skills that occur in "start of turn" in same turn when unit arrive from reserves (BRB, "arriving from reserves")

This way, we have 2 problems/paradoxes if points 1) and 2) are true:

3) If i can use his skill in reserve (change warlor trait - happens in start of turn) i can use his skill before reserve roll so i don't know if i will arrive or not (and probably you want to use this re-roll). What happens? You cannot arrive? However, there is no rule that allow you to remain flyer (night scythe) in reserve if you pass roll!

How to solve it? Or i just cannot use his skill while in reserve (changing)?

I don't know the specifics of your Necron guy but as long as there are no requirements for range and LoS etc., there's nothing stopping you using abilities and warlord traits from Reserve as long as he is alive.

For example, Kairos Fateweaver has a warlord trait allowing re-rolls on the Warpstorm table and another ability (using the Staff of Tomorrow) allowing the re-roll of any one D6 per turn. Neither of these requires him to be on the table so they can also be used while in Reserve.

Ton, the issue is that Nemesor's ability triggers at the start of the turn, and we have this snippet in the rules for reserves:

Moving On From Reserves, page 136 wrote:A unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from Reserve.

Adaptive Tactics, Necron Codex wrote:If Nemesor Zahndrekh is your Warlord, you may select a different Warlord Trait for him (no D6 roll is necessary) at the start of each friendly turn after the first – this replaces his existing Warlord Trait.

So, the answer to (1) and (2) is yes - as Ton pointed out, we have no restriction on using abilities in reserve beyond being unable to draw line of sight or measure anything.

For (3), we invoke the Sequencing rule (page 17) as we have two things trying to resolve at once - Adaptive Tactics and arriving from reserves, that both happen at the start of the turn:

Sequencing wrote:While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

Now, if you choose to arrive first, then Adaptive Tactics cannot be used, but if you choose to use AT first, then you're right, if you pass the reserve roll you end up in a situation where you have broken a rule in retrospect.

Despite writing all that, I've just realized I don't actually know which side to take... My HIWPI would probably be roll for reserves first, so that you can't break the rule.

 Quanar wrote:
For (3), we invoke the Sequencing rule (page 17) as we have two things trying to resolve at once - Adaptive Tactics and arriving from reserves, that both happen at the start of the turn:

Sequencing wrote:While playing Warhammer 40,000, you’ll occasionally find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time – normally ‘at the start of the Movement phase’ or similar. When this happens, and the wording is not explicit as to which rule is resolved first, then the player whose turn it is chooses the order.

Now, if you choose to arrive first, then Adaptive Tactics cannot be used, but if you choose to use AT first, then you're right, if you pass the reserve roll you end up in a situation where you have broken a rule in retrospect.

Despite writing all that, I've just realized I don't actually know which side to take... My HIWPI would probably be roll for reserves first, so that you can't break the rule.

Yeah, using Adaptive Tactics when you arrive from Reserves before you roll is kind of like using an Ordanance Weapon AFTER you fire other weapons to try and avoid Snap Shooting them. It's technically legal after a significant stretch of morals, but you're trying to loophole to an advantage.

Ya know, I've always started with Nemesor on the field, so I never actually put thought into a situation like this...

Even on the field, there is a problem though.

Starting Turn 2, NZ picks 'Strategic Genius' to re-roll reserves. (Assuming this is the rule most commonly used and why you're asking the question). He get's to do so at the start of the turn which is at the same time reserves are rolled. Since both happen at the same time, the Necron player chooses to have NZ pick the re-roll before rolling reserves to gain the bonus. Since there is no requirement for him to be on board, or LoS, or range, then he can use it when he's not on the board. Fluffwise, remember this is one part of a larger battle, so he's still there logically speaking. So we get to re-roll any failed reserve rolls including for himself. It gets confusing, because we have rules telling us what happens when he is removed as a casualty, which is different than him being on the board.

Turn 3 is where the problem happens. It's possible for units to still in , or intentionally kept in reserve after the re-roll. He still has 'Strategic Genius' but now chooses to roll for reserves while the trait is active, then still change it to something beneficial after he has already used a trait for the turn. This effectively gets him 2 WL Traits in one turn, which can rub people the wrong way, despite being legal. He still insures that everything that didn't make it on Turn 2 comes in on Turn 3, and then doesn't have to take a penalty and is still able to switch from Turn 3 onward exactly like all of his units coming in on Turn 2.

That's actually pretty filthy. I haven't really put thought into that either.