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Should Russia be forced to give up their occupied Baltic territory, which is currently undergoing large scale militarization and entrenchment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaliningrad
http://www.rferl.org/content/kaliningrad-russia-nato-west-strategic/27079655.html
http://uatoday.tv/politics/russia-speeding-up-militarisation-of-kaliningrad-458763.html

Who would they be ceding the oblast to? Further, why should they be forced to give it up at all?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Who would they be ceding the oblast to? Further, why should they be forced to give it up at all?

NATO, for a collective defense base.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Who would they be ceding the oblast to? Further, why should they be forced to give it up at all?

NATO, for a collective defense base.

Yeah, because that'd solve the militarization you're mentioning in the opening post. You do realize that "NATO" isn't a sovereign state, yes?

Ummm, of course I realize that?

To whom should we give it back? To the previous German occupiers? To the Polish occupiers who came before that, or to the Baltic occupiers who came even before that?
The biggest problem in returning Kaliningrad is that it is now a fully Russian land. The previous inhabitants no longer exist. If we go down this route, all states in the entire world would have to give 90% of their territory back. The difference with places like Hawaii on the other hand, is that in Hawaii, there still lives the previous inhabitants, and that some of them apparently want independence.
Land itself is meaningless, what matters is the people that live on there. In Kaliningrad, the only people are Russians. In other words, Russia is not occupying Kaliningrad, because occupation implies that somone else is the rightful owner. Currently no other European state except Russia has any reasonable claim (or interest for that matter) on Kaliningrad. This question is therefore quite ridiculous.

But I think we can still make a deal here. You give Alaska back to us, and we give Kaliningrad back to the Germans or Lithuanians or the extinct Prussians.


Also, on a historical note: The Soviet Union offered to give Kaliningrad to Lithuania in 1950, and to Germany in 1990. Both countries did not want it.

Fantastic idea! Give Kalinigrad to Poland.

Za naszą i waszą wolność.



BAM, first post from Iron_Capt "but what about Hawaii".....man oh man. I kinda love you man, but that was too easy.

You can't honestly pretend this thread wasn't created as a counter to the Hawaii thread. You also didn't counter Iron_Captain's argument, but rather just went for ad hominems instead.

Seriously, what's with Dakka forcing me to defend Iron_Captain these days?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Seriously, what's with Dakka forcing me to defend Iron_Captain these days?

Peter "I hope the leader of Canada gets cancer" Wiggin is just a consistently terrible poster.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You can't honestly pretend this thread wasn't created as a counter to the Hawaii thread. You also didn't counter Iron_Captain's argument, but rather just went for ad hominems instead.

Seriously, what's with Dakka forcing me to defend Iron_Captain these days?

Are you implying that I'd create a thread just to see how quickly someone leaped into whataboutism when presented with a completely ludicrous scenario? Sir, I deny these outlandish implications in the strongest possible terms. I am a studious lad who takes an interest in both history and current geopolitics.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
You can't honestly pretend this thread wasn't created as a counter to the Hawaii thread. You also didn't counter Iron_Captain's argument, but rather just went for ad hominems instead.

Seriously, what's with Dakka forcing me to defend Iron_Captain these days?

I love you too, Almighty Walrus
Soon you will be one with Mother Russia...


One of us...
One of us...

This does seem like a rather...let's say...intentionally provocative thread.

As such...