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Hey so I picked up a tyranid force pretty cheap with the codex and had a few questions about a few units that i'm excited to play! This by no means will be a major competitive army for me, more of a fun time right now but could grow, I mainly want to know how to best use the units I have.

So what I have is:
Tyrannofex
Carnafex
Maleceptor
22 genestealers
7 taurmaguants
10 hormaguants (probably redo them to one or the other)
1 broodlord
6 Warriors
4 rippers

So I know I need to get an HQ, I was thinkin on picking up a Hive Tyrant, a Lictor, some gaunts, and tyrannocyte?(the drop pod), should be a nice force to hit 1500 pts

My questions are:

1: Best uses for Genestealers (formations and ect)? - I love genestealers, always have wanted to play nids partly cause of them, so how should I use them? As infiltrators? the formation to get them in ruins early on? Outflank? 2 groups of 11 or 1 of 20? Are brood lords necessary?

2: Maleceptor.....I only know his rules are in his box and that I do not have those rules.....so really any info on this guy is cool (might convert him to hive tyrant cause he is a cool model)

3: Swarmlord, Fun? Worth his points? Im not afraid to foot slog lol just might need some guards

4: In a pod should I drop a carnafex or tyrannofex (and squad the carnafex) also how should I kit them out?

5: Lictor or deathleaper? or both? I love them so at min. a lictor will be added haha

6: Finally any other helpful pointers for new nid player?

Thanks Dakka!

First off for the tactics on nids, I would suggest you skim this forum as it is a treasure trove for both the codex, meta, and random suggestions.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572843.page

After that, I think you should find a focus on how you want your army to be.
Question one: Where on the competitive/fun build sliding scale are you?
Question two: How do you imagine the nid army? (dropping in from the skies, and rising from the surrounding terrain. Vs. Swarm of endless bugs. Vs. Tons of MC storming across the battlefield. Vs A living airforce of quick moving super bugs?)
Question three: What are you willing to spend to make that army?

Also, welcome to the pacific northwest gaming area, if you are ever in seattle and want to get a game in, send a message my way. Not sure if you are new to the area, but there is a good facebook group (northwest wargamers) Can be great for finding a game. TSHFT is a fantastic regional tournament that hosts a tourney every three to four months.

1: Best uses for Genestealers (formations and ect)? - I love genestealers, always have wanted to play nids partly cause of them, so how should I use them? As infiltrators? the formation to get them in ruins early on? Outflank? 2 groups of 11 or 1 of 20? Are brood lords necessary?

If you're taking Genestealers, IMO the best way to use them is to Infiltrate them into cover then assault...that's all they're really good for, as they have no guns. They work better in a large group, but obviously point becomes an issue as they're pricey. Broodlord not required.


2: Maleceptor.....I only know his rules are in his box and that I do not have those rules.....so really any info on this guy is cool (might convert him to hive tyrant cause he is a cool model)

You should be able to find the rules for free on GWs website still.

3: Swarmlord, Fun? Worth his points? Im not afraid to foot slog lol just might need some guards

Fun, yes. Worth his points, no. I always bring a Tyrant Guard when I use him to eat up wounds.

4: In a pod should I drop a carnafex or tyrannofex (and squad the carnafex) also how should I kit them out?

Either one should work. I'd equip a Tyrannofex with Acid Spray...the Rupture Cannon looks good because its S10, but its garbage. Carnifexes are trickier, as they have a hell of alot of weapons options. It really depends on what you want to do with them. For shooty Carnifexes, usually TL Devourers are recommended. I prefer to play to their Strength, so I usually take em bare or maybe with Crushing Claws and run them in the Wrecker Node.

5: Lictor or deathleaper? or both? I love them so at min. a lictor will be added haha

I never use either so can't comment here.

6: Finally any other helpful pointers for new nid player?

Flyrants are the best unit in the codex for the points. Venomthropes are the best support unit. It's worth mentioning that Tyranid MCs lend themselves well to magnetization if you want access to different weapons loadouts.

 seapheonix wrote:
First off for the tactics on nids, I would suggest you skim this forum as it is a treasure trove for both the codex, meta, and random suggestions.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/572843.page

After that, I think you should find a focus on how you want your army to be.
Question one: Where on the competitive/fun build sliding scale are you?
Question two: How do you imagine the nid army? (dropping in from the skies, and rising from the surrounding terrain. Vs. Swarm of endless bugs. Vs. Tons of MC storming across the battlefield. Vs A living airforce of quick moving super bugs?)
Question three: What are you willing to spend to make that army?

Also, welcome to the pacific northwest gaming area, if you are ever in seattle and want to get a game in, send a message my way. Not sure if you are new to the area, but there is a good facebook group (northwest wargamers) Can be great for finding a game. TSHFT is a fantastic regional tournament that hosts a tourney every three to four months.

Haha actually I lived by tacoma all last year and just moved back to north Idaho but ill hit you up when i go back that way for visits!

To answer your questions:
1: I would say about a 6-7 on a 1-10 scale, 1 being fluff 10 being competitive
2: was thinking more of a subterranean army for the nids, I want to invest in some ravengers and a mawloc later
3: Hmm tough one, Ill be hunting ebay a bit I know that haha


@jasper76 Thanks! shame you have no exp with that maleceptor :/ cool model just wondering if its decent on the table.

On your tyrannofex you take the acid spray, but what about that hive weapon? assault 20 at S6 doesnt seem too bad, and Ill have to look into this wrecker node, I was going to go dakkafex since most of my troop choice is assault oriented.

Thanks for the tip on magnets, I will have to invest haha

The Fleshborer Hive thing is not attractive to me because of its short range.

Plus, they make perfect conversion matterial for 2 twin linked Devourers for Tyrants, which is the most popular build (I have 2 Flyrants equipped this way). Tyrants end up looking like awesome flying mantis beasts if you use wings and the fleshborer hives for your 2 sets of Devourers. (The standard Devourer weapon model looks a little meh to me)

Regarding Carnifexes, there is also a shooty formation for them if that's your thing...can't remember the name, but iirc it's in Rising Leviathan III.

@jasper76 Thanks! shame you have no exp with that maleceptor :/ cool model just wondering if its decent on the table.

On your tyrannofex you take the acid spray, but what about that hive weapon? assault 20 at S6 doesnt seem too bad, and Ill have to look into this wrecker node, I was going to go dakkafex since most of my troop choice is assault oriented.

Thanks for the tip on magnets, I will have to invest haha

If you want to focus on a subterranean list. (I love it, and heartily approve of sudden appearing nids.
Mawloc= great for the points. (Very hit or miss for me personally.)
The deathleaper assassin squad is a good formation, especially if you already like lictors.
The Tyrannofex can be great for saturation infantry control, and a pain to get rid of. I like to put mine in a pod, with the acid spray, and a thorax swarm. (The fleshborer hive is str 4, not 6.)
Genestealers in this case could be good for a troop choice or two, infiltrating, and causing your opponent worry. (I would infiltrate them not all the way forward if you have first turn as you still can't charge, and with infiltrate you now have to deploy using infiltrate.
Rippers can take burrowing, making them another deepstriking tool.
Warriors are alright, a lot of people don't like them for their price, (there is a good amount of str 8 to ID them.) They are decent podding in, and do provide synapse.
With all of these deepstriking units you need some kind of reserve manipulation, either a fortification with a comms relay for the re-roll, or swarmlord for the +1. If swarmlord, I prefer to put him in a pod. I would use the maleceptor kit to make a swarm lord as the maleceptor itself for competition is pretty terrible. Bad armor, silly invul, terrible psychic power.
Pods are a great way to get your nids into the backfield with a minimum of walking, either with a lot of shooting. Or so many targets that when it comes assault time, they can't kill off all the threats.

What you have on the table: Here is the rub. Unlike marine drop pods, we need something on the table for that first turn or two, and it can't get wiped out. The sporefield formation is great for this. 90 points, six units, and they can't give up first blood.

@jasper76 I like the conversion idea! thanks!

@seapheonix Thanks for the correction on the S, must have mixed it up with something else. Also thanks for the tips! Yeah, the idea of underground Nids seems like such a fun concept, its definitely my go to choice.

With my chaos army I have some FMC's so while I know the flyrant is the go to for best bang for buck I might try drop podding one or magnetizing so I can try some foot versions before going to the skies with him. For some reason whenever I make an army list I tend to lean alot to CC, what are some of the major CC hitters? And what of FW's Nids? I was looking at the barbed hierodule and the Dimachaeron?

Just about everything from forgeworld is pretty fantastic.

Dimachaeron: Designed to take out the GCs out there, as well as potentially do a number on titans. However it is not a one note MC as it can do some pretty good work to hordes as well.
Malanthrope: Better then a venemthrope and a zoanthrope combined, tougher, with a better armor save. I love them and they are well worth it.
Stone wrecker carnifex: The true super heavy killer, they have to be used just right though, as they hit slow. However with a wrecking ball, they can survive a lot of damage and deal even more out.
Bio-titans I'm not as familiar with, I haven't made up any of them as they aren't all that welcome in the local gaming area. The two heirodules seem like they just can't do the damage for the points that they cost.

Great at close combat in the codex: Well the ravenors are good counter space marines with their higher initiative, although you really have to watch out for the synapse around them. Trygon has sadly gone down the tubes as cost for damage they are pretty...meh. Lictors are fantastic I think, although not invincible. Barring a power fist, you can use them to take out a squad of marines pretty well. Genestealers pack a lot of punch, and warriors do a sneaky amount of CC damage.
Crushing claws on tervignon/carnifex is an amazing way to take out vehicles in close combat, really wish the tyrannofex still had them.

 seapheonix wrote:
Just about everything from forgeworld is pretty fantastic.

Dimachaeron: Designed to take out the GCs out there, as well as potentially do a number on titans. However it is not a one note MC as it can do some pretty good work to hordes as well.
Malanthrope: Better then a venemthrope and a zoanthrope combined, tougher, with a better armor save. I love them and they are well worth it.
Stone wrecker carnifex: The true super heavy killer, they have to be used just right though, as they hit slow. However with a wrecking ball, they can survive a lot of damage and deal even more out.
Bio-titans I'm not as familiar with, I haven't made up any of them as they aren't all that welcome in the local gaming area. The two heirodules seem like they just can't do the damage for the points that they cost.

Great at close combat in the codex: Well the ravenors are good counter space marines with their higher initiative, although you really have to watch out for the synapse around them. Trygon has sadly gone down the tubes as cost for damage they are pretty...meh. Lictors are fantastic I think, although not invincible. Barring a power fist, you can use them to take out a squad of marines pretty well. Genestealers pack a lot of punch, and warriors do a sneaky amount of CC damage.
Crushing claws on tervignon/carnifex is an amazing way to take out vehicles in close combat, really wish the tyrannofex still had them.

Thank you so much! You have been an extremely great source of knowledge! I plan on getting a game in this weekend so I will report back with what I have learned from actual play time. Looks like I got quite an army to invest into know as the codex seems to have alot of options that suit me and how I want to play nids!

 Solosam47 wrote:

1: Best uses for Genestealers (formations and ect)? - I love genestealers, always have wanted to play nids partly cause of them, so how should I use them? As infiltrators? the formation to get them in ruins early on? Outflank? 2 groups of 11 or 1 of 20? Are brood lords necessary?

Best use is probably as synapse independent multi-small unit objective grabbers that can take advantage of the go to ground rule (though admittedly Lictors can do this as well). Otherwise, they are really too expensive to rely upon as a melee threat compared to Hormagaunts (though Rending is nice against certain things - particularly Gargantuan Creatures). That said, I do rather like the Children of Cryptus brood from the Shield of Baal supplement. They are a small unit but they have stealth which makes them much more survivable and the Spawn of Cryptus (the broodlord in the unit) provides them with preferred enemy when chosen as the Warlord or if the entire Annihilation Swarm formation is taken.

 Solosam47 wrote:

2: Maleceptor.....I only know his rules are in his box and that I do not have those rules.....so really any info on this guy is cool (might convert him to hive tyrant cause he is a cool model)

The exact rules can be found on the Black Library here.

General consensus is that the Maleceptor on its own is too expensive for what it does, but the Neural Node formation makes it a bit more useful (allows all psykers in the formation to reroll 1's when manifesting powers). It is best to think of it as a counter-assault melee beast that has some incidental psychic potential rather than the suggested role of "Psychic Sniper", as the Overload power is just too unreliable (roll to manifest -> roll to hit -> target takes a leadership test -> roll for damage). Whenever I have used mine it has done well against other monsterous creatures and similar things with low quantity of high quality attacks (like Termiantors) that would normally cut through tyranid monsters quickly. It is vulnerable to Krak Grenades though.

 Solosam47 wrote:

3: Swarmlord, Fun? Worth his points? Im not afraid to foot slog lol just might need some guards

Swarmlord is fun and has good support abilities, but he doesn't have the raw damage potential or cost efficiency of Flying Hive Tyrants in competitive play. I do like him in swarm-centric lists though, as the buffs he hands out are really nice for gribblies and his extended synapse range is helpful for keeping little bugs in check.

 Solosam47 wrote:

4: In a pod should I drop a carnafex or tyrannofex (and squad the carnafex) also how should I kit them out?

Carnifexes can't be part of a brood with a Tyrannocyte sadly. In any event, you can choose what to put in the pod on a game-by-game basis since they aren't dedicated transports. I'd probably lean a bit heavier towards the Tyrannofex as a candidate for deliver as it is more survivable and its Instinctive Behavior won't shut it down if a synapse creature isn't available (IB: Hunt lets the Tyrannofex act more or less as intended, IB: Feed on the Carnifex prevents it from shooting its guns).

 Solosam47 wrote:

5: Lictor or deathleaper? or both? I love them so at min. a lictor will be added haha

Both are fun and good for grabbing objectives and backfield vehicle assassination. There is a formation that allows for 5 Lictors and Deathleaper if I remember correctly as well.

@strat_N8 haha sorry I should have specified, If I choose not drop a carnafex in a pod, then i would just add another carnafex to make a brood while dropping the tyrannofex in a pod lol

But good points on the genestealers, I think I will run them as more msu objective grab

To offer an opposing point of view, IMO MSU Genestealers are just a bad idea. T4, 6+ Armor Save. Small groups of Genestealers are easy, easy kill points for your opponent.

IMO, Genestealers best use is to put pressure on your opponent by Infiltrating them into cover, and then charging. The one thing Genestealers are good at is CC. High Initiative, lots of attacks, high Weapon skill, rending attacks. They will either divert fire from the big stuff you have coming in, or your opponent will be foolish enough to ignore them, then have a bunch of CC mayhem smashing into their lines.

If you pay the steep price for Genestealers, it seems to me like a waste to just have them running at objectives in MSUs.

Of course, its worth it to try these roles out for yourself on the table, and find through experience the best use for them for your particular army list and your particular play style.

 jasper76 wrote:
To offer an opposing point of view, IMO MSU Genestealers are just a bad idea. T4, 6+ Armor Save. Small groups of Genestealers are easy, easy kill points for your opponent.

IMO, Genestealers best use is to put pressure on your opponent by Infiltrating them into cover, and then charging. The one thing Genestealers are good at is CC. High Initiative, lots of attacks, high Weapon skill, rending attacks. They will either divert fire from the big stuff you have coming in, or your opponent will be foolish enough to ignore them, then have a bunch of CC mayhem smashing into their lines.

If you pay the steep price for Genestealers, it seems to me like a waste to just have them running at objectives in MSUs.

Of course, its worth it to try these roles out for yourself on the table, and find through experience the best use for them for your particular army list and your particular play style.

Hmm good point, Ill keep it in mind and try both They are expensive when put next to other nid troops, I was thinking MSU might be good if I use the formation that allows them to infiltrate into ruins spreading them around in cover, my opponent could try to focus them or focus my big baddies, but yeah like you said, i better try testing it out before committing to them

lol, Genestealers. 'Perfectly evolved to stealthy kill even the strongest opponent, if by that you mean sneak up and stand next to said opponent while they shoot you to shreds; after which they shoot them again when they charge, then rip them apart with chainswords because two blades of overgrown grass were impeding the charge'.

If you're into competitive play, your best troop is the Mucolid, by means of only setting you back with 30-45 points so you can invest more in the few good things we have. Rippers are also decent, by means of deepstriking onto objectives while not needing to be babysat by synapse units, and being cheap-ish.

If you really want to use your Genestealers, in softer games I've had some success with the Manofactorum Formation that allows 5 broods to be infiltrated in Ruins 1" from enemy units. Back them up with our fastest choices (Raveners, Shrikes, Gargoyles, Meleerants) and you have force that hits turn 2 and is decent at grabbing maelstrom points.

Regarding the maleceptor, I tried mine a few times and then decided to proxy it as a tervigon. Hate to be negative about it as I love the model, but I found it underwhelming for the points it costs. I usually don't have wc left to throw at it's power, so that makes it the equivalent of a tervigon that does not poop gaunts for me. To put this into perspective, I'm not a tournament player but do like to have some punch in my lists.

That said, I reached my decision after trying it out a few times, despite the Internet being unanimously negative about it. I'd recommend you do the same

 Solosam47 wrote:
Hey so I picked up a tyranid force pretty cheap with the codex and had a few questions about a few units that i'm excited to play! This by no means will be a major competitive army for me, more of a fun time right now but could grow, I mainly want to know how to best use the units I have.

So what I have is:
Tyrannofex
Carnafex
Maleceptor
22 genestealers
7 taurmaguants
10 hormaguants (probably redo them to one or the other)
1 broodlord
6 Warriors
4 rippers

So I know I need to get an HQ, I was thinkin on picking up a Hive Tyrant, a Lictor, some gaunts, and tyrannocyte?(the drop pod), should be a nice force to hit 1500 pts

!

Just some recommendations based on what you have to get you feeding the Hive mind quickly.
1) Finds 2 more stealers and run them as Manufactorum stealers from Leviathan Rising 1. Best use of 25 stealers there is and you can start them with in 6" of your oppenent if there is a ruins/building. Or for go a few stealers and use the Broodlord Hunting Pack also good at putting pressure on things.
2) Grab the tryrant and make him a flyrant. This is just kind of a give me for the codex
3) Tyranocite is a good buy for either of the Fexes, though not required
4) Best use of the Carnie is a Dakka fex, thanks to being S9 naturally he is still a melee beast.
5) The Tfex, is our best "tank" unit with the 2+. I like him with the Acid and the electro shock grubs for 2 templates and a ranged AT option.
6) get 3 more Termies for a full brood

Now to get you on the table today I would run something like this, not competitive but can make the opponent pay for being lazy:

Detachment total:1397-1447
CAD:1025-1075
HQ
1 Prime with Bonesword+ lash whip, , Miasma cannon, fleshhooks (Ridiculous Expensive, but nasty) 170

Elite:
1 Maleceptor (he is your primary Synapse anchor, the rest is just gravy so stick with Dominion unless you get shriek or Catalyst) 205

Troops:
4 Rippers with DS (these guys are objective grabbers) 60
10 Hormigaunts with Toxin (act as a screen for the big beasts, a threat to anything with a wound and decent objective grabbers) 80
5 Warriors with a mix of dual boneswords and rending claws (Your Prime goes here for a melee hammer and up the hits from the devourers) 175-225 depending on mix

Heavy: (these guys are you main ranged threat)
1 Carniefex with dual TL-devourers 150
1 T-fex with electro show grubs 185

Broodlord hunting pack (leviathan Rising 1): Use the PE bonus to go after either the HQ or biggest body count unit. 372 total
8 stealers + broodlord with sytals 176
7 stealers 98
7 stealers 98

barnowl wrote:

 Solosam47 wrote:
Hey so I picked up a tyranid force pretty cheap with the codex and had a few questions about a few units that i'm excited to play! This by no means will be a major competitive army for me, more of a fun time right now but could grow, I mainly want to know how to best use the units I have.

So what I have is:
Tyrannofex
Carnafex
Maleceptor
22 genestealers
7 taurmaguants
10 hormaguants (probably redo them to one or the other)
1 broodlord
6 Warriors
4 rippers

So I know I need to get an HQ, I was thinkin on picking up a Hive Tyrant, a Lictor, some gaunts, and tyrannocyte?(the drop pod), should be a nice force to hit 1500 pts

!

Just some recommendations based on what you have to get you feeding the Hive mind quickly.
1) Finds 2 more stealers and run them as Manufactorum stealers from Leviathan Rising 1. Best use of 25 stealers there is and you can start them with in 6" of your oppenent if there is a ruins/building. Or for go a few stealers and use the Broodlord Hunting Pack also good at putting pressure on things.
2) Grab the tryrant and make him a flyrant. This is just kind of a give me for the codex
3) Tyranocite is a good buy for either of the Fexes, though not required
4) Best use of the Carnie is a Dakka fex, thanks to being S9 naturally he is still a melee beast.
5) The Tfex, is our best "tank" unit with the 2+. I like him with the Acid and the electro shock grubs for 2 templates and a ranged AT option.
6) get 3 more Termies for a full brood

Now to get you on the table today I would run something like this, not competitive but can make the opponent pay for being lazy:

Detachment total:1397-1447
CAD:1025-1075
HQ
1 Prime with Bonesword+ lash whip, , Miasma cannon, fleshhooks (Ridiculous Expensive, but nasty) 170

Elite:
1 Maleceptor (he is your primary Synapse anchor, the rest is just gravy so stick with Dominion unless you get shriek or Catalyst) 205

Troops:
4 Rippers with DS (these guys are objective grabbers) 60
10 Hormigaunts with Toxin (act as a screen for the big beasts, a threat to anything with a wound and decent objective grabbers) 80
5 Warriors with a mix of dual boneswords and rending claws (Your Prime goes here for a melee hammer and up the hits from the devourers) 175-225 depending on mix

Heavy: (these guys are you main ranged threat)
1 Carniefex with dual TL-devourers 150
1 T-fex with electro show grubs 185

Broodlord hunting pack (leviathan Rising 1): Use the PE bonus to go after either the HQ or biggest body count unit. 372 total
8 stealers + broodlord with sytals 176
7 stealers 98
7 stealers 98

Many thanks! This is somewhat along the lines of what I had in mind aswell although I was going to proxy a CC tyrant with the maleceptor cause after looking over and thinking on him it is clear he is a tad too expensive just for warp charges, I really wouldnt take him for his special power mainly due to it being a witchfire and his BS3.

I will have to hunt down these formation rules a tad more just to have a copy on hand when I play, the ones dealing with genestealers seem to make them so much better and actually worth taking from what I hear. This week I might grab a box of termagants and the tyrant altho later I will want to grab another one to add the swarmlord cause he is such a cool model and beast in CC.

Yeah so my game with my nids today got postponed due to a head cold but I willl be joining an escalation league with them soon to try them out in increments and hopefully get some good knowledge at all point levels.



Thank you again for taking the time to write this all down, many cheers

OP, I'm toying with the idea of using 18 genestealers & a brood lord in a tyrannocite to strike at my opponent's back field. That and my mawlocks should keep his attention from my other bugs.

It's expensive, yes, but it looks like it has the potential to be very effective.

 LemanRuse wrote:
OP, I'm toying with the idea of using 18 genestealers & a brood lord in a tyrannocite to strike at my opponent's back field. That and my mawlocks should keep his attention from my other bugs.

It's expensive, yes, but it looks like it has the potential to be very effective.[/quote

Only issue is the one round as a sitting duck before you can assault.

If you're taking Genestealers, IMO the best way to use them is to Infiltrate them into cover then assault...that's all they're really good for, as they have no guns. They work better in a large group, but obviously point becomes an issue as they're pricey. Broodlord not required.

Many small units of 'stealers can work, but they work best when supported. I'm not going to argue there aren't better things point for point, by the way.

Firstly, the Broodlord isn't required but is damn good. For a fairly low price you have a model who can go toe-to-toe with a lot of armies HQ choices, and who is an expendable squad leader.

Secondly, he's always a psyker, and he always has The Horror. This power is key to making 'stealers do what they're supposed to do in the fluff for two reasons:

a) If a unit is pinned it cannot fire overwatch when you charge
b) If a unit is pinned you suffer no initiative penalties for charging it

As a result, 'stealers work well paired with lictors in an Assassin Brood - between the two you can force pinning checks at -3Ld, which means even Ld10 units are going to get pinned after you hit them a couple of times.

The Manufactorum Genestealers formation is an especially nice one - 5 minimum units of stealers which, whilst you can't add extra stealers, you can add broodlords to, and which appear 6" away from the enemy in cover (4+ cover save for the win!), and spend the turn throwing massed pinning tests at one flank, take one turn of snap fire, then charge and start lightly murdering critical targets.