Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Who would be the senior or superior in the 41st millennium? A first founding 1st or 2nd company Captain or a later founding Chapter Master?

Taffy17 wrote:
Who would be the senior or superior in the 41st millennium? A first founding 1st or 2nd company Captain or a later founding Chapter Master?

IMO, greatly depends. How adherent to the Codex Astartes are the two chapters that are allying?

Do you mean a Captain from one of the original loyalist legions vs a chapter master from any other chapter?

The chapter master is always > captain on a strictly technical level. But a chapter master might defer to someone of greater experience. Technically members of one chapter have no authority over members of another regardless of rank, but experience will usually be deferred to in matters where one has more experience over the other. A chapter master who prefers to lead from the front might cede operational authority to a lower ranked member of his chapter if he doesn't wish to involve himself in those decisions or believes that individual to be better suited.

At Armageddon, the Space Wolves, Ultramarines, and Salamanders, all of who's chapter masters were present IIRC, ceded operational authority to Dante of the Blood Angels due to his seniority. He also assumed total control over all other imperial forces as well.

I was just curious, say you have Pedro Kantor (2nd founding chapter master), Severus Agemman (1st founding 1st captain), and Lufgt Huron (10th founding chapter master) before turning traitor (or an equivalent to these 3) what order of authority would you put them in?

Pedro would likely be given command authority by the other 2 as he is the most experienced and senior of their number.

Actually that's a freakishly balanced trio:

Kantor has been chapter master for a century, but with 250 years of experience prior to that.

At the time of the chapters fall Huron had been chapter master for about two centuries, but was the youngest chapter master in the Astral Claws history.

Agemman is only First Captain, but he's been First Captain for 250 years, he might well have more experience than either of the others despite his rank.

At the end of the day however it would be decided by ego's of all involved. Outside of dodgy Dark Angel conspiracies no marine has de jure authority over any marine from another chapter.

Well if we go by ego I think that Huron and Agemmon might be evenly matched.

Depends on the battle, if purging a space hulk, a less experienced chapter master may defer to a more experienced captain who had done it many times and let them lead the assault force despite outranking.

However if works semi normal, the respect between marines can let them Cede with no loss of face at times, all depending which chapters involved, codex viewsd etc.

Impirium over ego. ( not always)

If a chapter master is there, it's unlikely anyone is going to expect him to put a captain from another chapter in charge, regardless of what chapter they're from.

IMO it's a non question. Founding order is immaterial to rank. Chapter master outranks captain. Older regiments have more battles and honors, but that does not influence the rank and experience of the individual troops and commanders. Would you ask the same question of Cadian 101st regimental commander vs A Co commander of the Cadian 10th? Probably not.

That said, Astartes being an elite force, they likely defer to specialist knowledge and experience as needed. An Imperial Fist captain would lead a Space Wolf CM in a defensive campaign, for example. But a SW sergeant would lead an IF assault.

Personally, I think that just about the only time that a more "senior" officer would defer to a lower rank due to chapter would be something where a chapter like the Eagle Warriors or Mortifactors would "automatically" defer to a captain of the Ultramarines due to their "shared" heritage... sort of an older/younger brother kind of thing.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Personally, I think that just about the only time that a more "senior" officer would defer to a lower rank due to chapter would be something where a chapter like the Eagle Warriors or Mortifactors would "automatically" defer to a captain of the Ultramarines due to their "shared" heritage... sort of an older/younger brother kind of thing.

This is what I was thinking, obviously an ultramarines successor chapter master would defer to Calgar but would the defer to Agemman? Sicarius? Where would they fit in? Would they question the word of a senior officer of their founding legion?

A successor of any other legion might defer automatically to the 2nd Founding *chapter* that retained the name, number and regalia of the *disbanded* legion, but the Ultramarines are the *least* likely to do so because they all know it was their revered gene-father Guilliman who broke the legions apart, and did so for a reason.