Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I play the Raptors, a Ravenguard successor chapter, and have always wanted a way to play them as stealthy masters of subterfuge. The talon strike force has a lot of fun and fluffy options I'm just to excited to try out. Below is my attempt to make a list that is shooting heavy, true to the Raptors fluff, while utilizing the special rules of the Talon Strike Force. Let me know what you guys think:

Talon Strike Force Detachment

Pinion Demi-Company Formation
Captain [Boltgun, Boltpistol, Auspex] - Warlord (Strategic Traits)
Company Command Squad [4x Veterans (Plasma Gun), 1x Apothecary, Rhino (Dozer Blade)]
Devastator Squad [4x Space Marines (Lascannon), Space Marine Sergeant (Signum)]
Assault Squad [2x Space Marines (Flamer, Jump Pack), 2x Space Marines (Jump Pack), Space Marine Sergeant (Jump Pack)]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino (Dozer Blade)]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino (Dozer Blade)]
Tactical Squad [3x Space Marines, 1x Space Marine (Meltagun), Space Marine Sergeant (Combi-melta), Rhino (Dozer Blade)]
Scout Squad [4x Scouts, 1x Scout Sergeant]
Scout Bike Squad [2x Scout Bikers, Scout Bike Sergeant]
Scout Bike Squad [2x Scout Bikers, Scout Bike Sergeant]
Scout Bike Squad [2x Scout Bikers, Scout Bike Sergeant]
Scout Bike Squad [2x Scout Bikers, Scout Bike Sergeant]

Raptor Wing Formation
Land Speeder Squadron [1x Land Speeder (Heavy Flamer, Multi-Melta)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]
Stormtalon [1x Storm Talon (Twin-Linked Assault Cannon, Skyhammer Missile Launcher)]

The only special rules interaction worth pointing out is that all of the tactical and command squads out flank, and that everything but the scouts in the pinion battle-company has ignore cover on their ranged weapons.

I'd recommend putting Artificer Armor on your Captain, trust me, it is nearly always worth the cost to make your warlord that much more survivable. Other than that I like it, stays pretty close to Raptor's fluff from what I can tell.

 War Kitten wrote:
I'd recommend putting Artificer Armor on your Captain, trust me, it is nearly always worth the cost to make your warlord that much more survivable. Other than that I like it, stays pretty close to Raptor's fluff from what I can tell.

I'm not sure where I'd get the 20pts for that. I could take the dozer blades off of the rhinos, but its super fluffy IMO and useful considering I'm outflanking them. Where would you shave the points off to get the artificer armor?

For starters, the auspex can go. What is the point of reducing cover saves by 1 if you are ignoring cover most of the time anyway?

I think this list nails the 1500pt game. MSU, lots of special rules to buff the smaller squads, alternate deployment options, etc. And best of all it utilizes one of (imo) the best fluffy formations out there.

Now the non-bike Scout Squad. Are they with the devs?

I'm thinking about a similar list. However, I don't have the scout bikers like he does. I'm going to try and get a similar effect with combat scouts in LSS. Should work, no?

Land Speeders vs Bikes are a huge debate for me as well. With bikes I can assault reasonably hard targets, but with the land speeders you totally negate any shooting below S4 (a good portion of non-marine codexes). I haven't considered scout bikers vs. land speeder storm because I own very few of either but the debate should fall along the same lines.

Ixidor13 wrote: Now the non-bike Scout Squad. Are they with the devs?

Mhmmm, they are just there to provide ignores cover to the lascannons. The bike scouts tag along with the rhinos and outflank.

Green is Best! wrote:For starters, the auspex can go. What is the point of reducing cover saves by 1 if you are ignoring cover most of the time anyway?

My thoughts were it only cost 5pts and what else could the captain really do. Thought it could be useful for reducing the save on a jinking flyer for the stormtalons.

Ixidor13 wrote:Land Speeders vs Bikes are a huge debate for me as well. With bikes I can assault reasonably hard targets, but with the land speeders you totally negate any shooting below S4 (a good portion of non-marine codexes). I haven't considered scout bikers vs. land speeder storm because I own very few of either but the debate should fall along the same lines.

I went with bikes for two reasons: 1.) The bike squad is ~40pts cheaper then anything in a LSS 2.) Scout Bikes are very durable with T5, a 3+ armor, and a 4+ jink. I figured it was the best way to keep that sergeant alive.

In terms of scouts I think you're right. I did some digging during the game I just played. Now, off topic, but would you run 3 MM Attack Bikes or 2 double MM Land Speeders? 150 for the bikes and 140 for the speeders. They'd be run in a Salamanders list as vehicle hunters. I think it's speeders no contest.

 Ixidor13 wrote:
In terms of scouts I think you're right. I did some digging during the game I just played. Now, off topic, but would you run 3 MM Attack Bikes or 2 double MM Land Speeders? 150 for the bikes and 140 for the speeders. They'd be run in a Salamanders list as vehicle hunters. I think it's speeders no contest.

Speeders are better for heavy weapons IMO, simply because they can deepstrike. A deep striking MM is far more likely to get rear/side armor then a MM on a bike.

Solid looking list boss. I think it fits the raptors well. Now, have you considered buffing out the bolter squads to get more shots? You have your melta 'bunkers' driving in from outflank and melting things, plasma command squad for a hard infantry squad and the lascannons for a hard target, but not much for hordes. I think once the command squad, lascannons and command squad is gone you don't have much left. Unfortunately battle company space marines are kind of like that right now. You don't have enough units if you bring the firepower, but if you bring the bodies - the firepower suffers. Double edged sword I know. At 1850 I'll go with a pinion, skyhammer annihilation force and the raptor wing. Have you played the raptor wing yet? I'm curious to see how it does. Thanks boss.

Castellan Alaric wrote:
Solid looking list boss. I think it fits the raptors well. Now, have you considered buffing out the bolter squads to get more shots? You have your melta 'bunkers' driving in from outflank and melting things, plasma command squad for a hard infantry squad and the lascannons for a hard target, but not much for hordes. I think once the command squad, lascannons and command squad is gone you don't have much left. Unfortunately battle company space marines are kind of like that right now. You don't have enough units if you bring the firepower, but if you bring the bodies - the firepower suffers. Double edged sword I know. At 1850 I'll go with a pinion, skyhammer annihilation force and the raptor wing. Have you played the raptor wing yet? I'm curious to see how it does. Thanks boss.

I've gotten in two games with the Raptor Wing. I find across the board it performs well. My favorite part is the option to attempt to come in turn 1, or to guaranteed come on turn 2. It makes planning things a little easier. The re-rolls to wound/pen really let you lay on the rending hits from the Assault cannons while the Skyhammer Missiles can deal with light armor and MCs. I used it to kill two Flyrants in one game, and in another It provided some very useful fire support. I do consider switching from the Skyhammer to the Typhoon launchers though. BS 5 makes that a really reliable blast, while Str 8 is huge for taking out AV 12 flyers like Storm Ravens. I'll have to test it a few more times.

I agree, but I feel if I'm shelling out points for more strength it NEEDS to be ap2. No explodes possibility sucks. One thing I hate about the new damage chart. It is nice that vehicles are a tad more reliable, but really? An anti-air missile won't blow up a jet - that it's DESIGNED to blow up? hmm...I call shenanigans. Anywho, I would go for volume of fire with the rerolls to pen from the land speeder. More change to glance out.

Thanks for the info boss!

Why would you ever play Raptors without using Lias?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Why would you ever play Raptors without using Lias?

Two reasons at the moment: 1.) You can't take him in a Talon Strike Force until its errata'd (Technically you can't even use Raptor's tactics in TSF yet) 2.) His infiltration warlord trait isn't really useful in a list where everything is outflanking except for a squad of devastators. I have a model for him, and he's fun I just don't have a place in the TSF for him yet.