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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 04:24:52
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader
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Is it possible to have a more range-oriented infantry-heavy CSM army do anything meaningful on the tabletop?
I reckon a bunch of Cultist meat-shields running up to slow down any assault units. Twenty-to-Thirty Chaos Marines or Noise Marines making the most of the line with some Obliterators/Havocs making up Anti-Tank. And maybe have some bikers and terminators to muck things up in the mid-field. Thoughts?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/18 04:45:22
3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)
2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)
Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 05:35:28
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Auspicious Daemonic Herald
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If you consider artillery to be infantry then yes because FW's Rapier batteries are actually good.
Other then that no, no not really.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 05:44:44
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Hellacious Havoc
Kansas, USA
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Well, gun line CSM is weak. Though if you want to do it, The best way to go about it is Noise marines with Sonic Blasters. Havocs with Autocannons, Rhinos with Havoc Launchers, and Termicide squads to drop behind the enemy and make them fight on two fronts. Obilterators are nice, but not allowing the same weapon twice in a row means they are going to be hard to rely on to pop tanks every round.
Cultist meat shields are fine... until they run away or get pinned. Which they will, since they are only LD 7, LD 8 with a champ. Meaning you would have to invest in either zombies with typhus or a lord to babysit them and make them fearless. You could also take the Helcult formation to make them fearless, but that means bringing a helbrute. Which "can" be good, but unlikely.
I've won with gun line CSM in very small games, like around 500 points, but since CSM is fundamentally an assault army. We're hard pressed to really go toe to toe with anyone that shoots further, is faster, has armor over 10 or is GC. Basically, every other army right now.
Edit: Allying in renegades and heretics will greatly improve your options. But that's FW, and depending on your playgroup/wallet, that may not be viable.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/18 05:47:36
"Because we couldn't be trusted. The Emperor needed a weapon that would never obey its own desires before those of the Imperium. He needed a weapon that would never bite the hand that feeds. The World Eaters were not that weapon. We've all drawn blades purely for the sake of shedding blood, and we've all felt the exultation of winning a war that never even needed to happen. We are not the tame, reliable pets that the Emperor wanted. The Wolves obey, when we would not. The Wolves can be trusted, when we never could. They have discipline we lack, because their passions are not aflame with the Butcher's Nails buzzing in the back of their skulls.
The Wolves will always come to the heel when called. In that regard, it is a mystery why they name themselves wolves. They are tame, collared by the Emperor, obeying his every whim. But a wolf doesn't behave that way. Only a dog does.
That is why we are the Eaters of Worlds, and the War Hounds no longer."
- Eighth Captain Khârn |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 05:52:07
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Thane of Dol Guldur
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Cheap Cultists, Noise Marines, Lazcannon or Assault Cannon Havocs (depending on your meta), and some kinda AA...ML Havocs mixed in to fit the theme, or hellchickens never hurt. Obliterators can be good for infantry Heavy Support. Did I say Noise Marines?
1K Son Daemon Factory is another idea.
If you don't mind the hefty taxes, Black Legion could make a good infantry-based army replacing Cultists above with jacked up Chosen, and hoping you fight alot of IoM. Maybe Crimson Slaughter is worth looking into. I'm not so familiar with that one.
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This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/11/18 06:02:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 06:04:03
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Lesser Daemon of Chaos
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I'm a big fan of cultist meat shields advancing down field with Autocannon and Lascannon fire backing them up. Havocs and Oblits are great heavy support choices, and dropping a termicide (3X Melta on drop) behind their main force can split ehir fire enough to continue an advance.
Of course, once you close the gap is where you want some CC oriented units to bring the hurt. Zerkers in transports can do the trick, LR or Rhino.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 08:24:15
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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Infantry heavy csm are playable. Though, you still need strong assault units cause csm don't have a bunch of new effective shooty toys.
The best infantry-base csm list i saw revolved around a 20-strong mellee infiltrating blob with Cypher, infiltrating chosen and a couple rhino marines with bolters and specials.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 09:15:27
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Dakka Veteran
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It can work, but only in lower point games. We get trashed by all the modern great big killy formations and MC that really should be walkers. You can't run it pure gunline and expect to win, though. You will be doing a LOT of shooting, but it will be done as you're trying to get into assault. Huron is great for getting a squad or three infiltrated, and as mentioned Cypher's formation is pretty good, but beware pie plates if you go that route, as chosen are not cheap. We can bring a LOT of special weapons with us. I find a squad of raptors deep striking in with a couple meltas or plasmas in a 5 man squad to be one of the most effective things we have. Bringing 2 special weapons in 10 man squads allows CSM to outgun their loyalist brethren. Also, if you play in a gravgun heavy environment, cultists are hilariously good as meat shields. I tend to smuggle a sorcerer in a blob of cultists to offer some pressure. A squad of havocs parked in your deployment area, especially if there's some ruins you can use to gain better LOS, can really pour out some pain. I usually bring a couple of extra bodies instead of the bare minimum because once the opponent figures out how much damage those autocannons do, they WILL start targeting them. In the right environment, infantry heavy CSM are okay. It's the higher point games where we're paper tigers that makes the codex nearly unplayable. If you want to use CSM infantry, go ahead and run some daemon as well. The two will mesh pretty good until you decide that you'd be better off just running daemons. Here's hoping we get some new toys soon. I've stopped buying models for my CSM until there's a new codex. I have about 4k worth of models that are totally outclassed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 09:57:43
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Dakka Veteran
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Cultist meat shields are fine... until they run away or get pinned. Which they will, since they are only LD 7, LD 8 with a champ. Meaning you would have to invest in either zombies with typhus or a lord to babysit them and make them fearless. You could also take the Helcult formation to make them fearless, but that means bringing a helbrute. Which "can" be good, but unlikely.
Cultist meat shields are not going to run away if you're maxing out a Helcult, which is the best way of running cultists. Then you can use your purge detachment to remove the troop tax entirely. Two detachments legal in most competition.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 16:21:14
Subject: Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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You can also run them with Kharn
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/11/18 16:44:24
Subject: Re:Infantry Heavy Chaos Space Marines?
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Veteran Wolf Guard Squad Leader
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I know everyone else has said it, but not really. Small games will be fine but CSM is just outclasses so much in shooting its ridiculous.
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