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I have become curious as I read through a few of my codexes, about how the various dreadnaughts play and how I rarely see them actually on the table. What is currently making them so undesirable? What options make them worth using? Is there any way to make a vaguely competitive list with all dreadnaughts?

Well they're much better now thanks to Chapter Tactics and 4 base attacks, but I haven't read tournament results since the new codex.

Hull points killed dreadnoughts.


The current Space Marine version got a boost in effectiveness, but they're just too fragile.

I love my Dreads, and I still field them in most of my marine lists... but I don't expect them to actually accomplish anything worthwhile before they die.

ironclad in DP. Hide behind the Pod for the cover if needed.

Leviathan Dreadnought with twin Storm Cannons in a drop pod
Watch as you mince marines with 12 S7 AP3 shots from a drop pod

the problem is that the dreadnaught is too flimsy to be upfront where he belongs, this being said certain dreads are good at shooting. the standard dread is basically worthless, the venerable is a good tank sniper i often take one with a lascannon and fist as a tank sniper he shoots when he cans from the back and fists anyone who deepstrikes in since its just one lascannon from a bacline coated in autocannons and lascannons he often goes skipped.

as for the ironclad hes designed for derpstriking, you drop in and then shoot someone after youve safely arrived in behind a building hes for leaping out of the bushes and punishing someone with a free face exam using his melee weapons.

the deredeo is the king of shooting he is the best AAA platform in the game for marines no debates and he is an amazing anti-ground target shooter too, about the only thing he cant do is hurt av14

the contempor/mortis is sort of a good option for those who dont have the ironclad in their codex hes good at cc and short range shooting he can also take a volkite gun perfect for cracking terminators and marines open if you fight them regularly.

the chaplain dread is basically an extra expensive venerable, nothing to see here

the librarian dread is really only good for spell slining ever since the wings of sanguinius was removed he lost his silly flying dreadnaught gimmick so now hes just an usuaully strong dreadnaught with some magic hes not bad though

the death company dread and the murderfang are lofty goals dreads, their either going to eat whatever they touch or die doing nothing their a real gambling mans dread, again derpstrike is the way to play

bjorn is a beast in cc he would be better if cc was better as would space wolf dreads and their stormshields

 ionusx wrote:
the problem is that the dreadnaught is too flimsy to be upfront where he belongs, this being said certain dreads are good at shooting. the standard dread is basically worthless, the venerable is a good tank sniper i often take one with a lascannon and fist as a tank sniper he shoots when he cans from the back and fists anyone who deepstrikes in since its just one lascannon from a bacline coated in autocannons and lascannons he often goes skipped.

as for the ironclad hes designed for derpstriking, you drop in and then shoot someone after youve safely arrived in behind a building hes for leaping out of the bushes and punishing someone with a free face exam using his melee weapons.

the deredeo is the king of shooting he is the best AAA platform in the game for marines no debates and he is an amazing anti-ground target shooter too, about the only thing he cant do is hurt av14

the contempor/mortis is sort of a good option for those who dont have the ironclad in their codex hes good at cc and short range shooting he can also take a volkite gun perfect for cracking terminators and marines open if you fight them regularly.

the chaplain dread is basically an extra expensive venerable, nothing to see here

the librarian dread is really only good for spell slining ever since the wings of sanguinius was removed he lost his silly flying dreadnaught gimmick so now hes just an usuaully strong dreadnaught with some magic hes not bad though

the death company dread and the murderfang are lofty goals dreads, their either going to eat whatever they touch or die doing nothing their a real gambling mans dread, again derpstrike is the way to play

bjorn is a beast in cc he would be better if cc was better as would space wolf dreads and their stormshields

You forgot to add the summary for the Leviathan Dreadnought (Just edit it in)

I like the idea of Rifleman Dreads with either Dual TL Autocannons or Autocannon/Lascannon arms.

Unlike a Predator, they can fight in CC, have better firepower (depending on config) AND get Chapter Tactics.

As much as I love the concept, and always include at least one in my CSM lists, their rules simply suck.

If you want a close combat version, it's slow enough to never ever make it to combat without being a) vaporised by enemy fire or b) withered and damaged enough that when you reach close combat, a simple krak grenade will finish the job. Loyalists have the drop pod tactic that works better, but it's still far from great, and most armies will have enough firepower to blow it to pieces the turn it deep strikes. Except perhaps if you're playing Salamanders and give it two heavy flamers.

As for the shooty version, it works better, but it's still too fragile. Not to mention, as soon as the enemy manages to get an internal hit, you're fethed up (either forced to snapshoot, to not shoot at all, either losing one of the weapons or just asplode altogether).

Someone already said it better: Hull Points mechanic killed dreadnoughts. Specially considering they have to routinely face against monstruous creatures that are as effective or more when it comes down to either cc or shooting, and way more durable.

I don't think it was hull points that killed the dreadnought

I seem to recall it being pretty dead in 5th edition. Where it was so much easier to utterly compromise it with even a glance.

I think they're better now than they were in 5th and a 're certainly better than 6th... Still not great though. I'm keen to try them again following their latest buff.

Normally I would run an auto/auto in the back field and try to keep it well away from the rest of my army. Otherwise (or perhaps in tandem) have a moderately close-up killy dread kept relatively close to a conversion beamer master of the forge (old codex, I guess tech marine now)

In fifth edition I ran two ironclad dreadnoughts named Munroe and Munroe. They were boisterous and supportive. They weren't consistently amazing but every once in a while they'd hit a 40-man guard blob from both sides, meet in he middle and flip over a tank in celebration.

More recently in a 750 point narrative campaign I took a venerable with an assault cannon and heavy flamer along with a tech marine who'd fallow closely behind and keep him in ship-shape. (Iron hands tactics as Deathwatch) and while I didn't do super well in that campaign (that + inq + sternguard = low model count) the dread always did something crazy if they didn't spend a round or two focussing on it explicitly. (Highlights include charging through a ruin give a riptide the people's elbow and killing a necron lord three times (once with each of his weapons.)

The only walkers you will reliably see are the ones with AV13, or that are super cheap. Soul grinders are a great example of a still useful walker. They IG tank level ranged weapons (hellhound or battlecannon) great all around armor, wonderful resilience to shaken/stunned (which are both hard hits to walkers). The invulnerable save is just icing on the cake. All for a decent price.

Between hull points and the new addition of Grav, walkers are in bigger trouble than ever. 1 roll of a 6 from a grav weapon, and you walker is pretty useless. If walkers still had 360 line of sight, they would still be viable as gun platform. Sure, they get 45 degree ark, then another 45, giving them a slightly larger window, but it still is lacking.


So if you take, say, a rifleman dreadnought, you have the risk of being tied in CC by gaunts or something. You take a vehicle and you have the risk of a grenade on rear armor.

commander dante wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
the problem is that the dreadnaught is too flimsy to be upfront where he belongs, this being said certain dreads are good at shooting. the standard dread is basically worthless, the venerable is a good tank sniper i often take one with a lascannon and fist as a tank sniper he shoots when he cans from the back and fists anyone who deepstrikes in since its just one lascannon from a bacline coated in autocannons and lascannons he often goes skipped.

as for the ironclad hes designed for derpstriking, you drop in and then shoot someone after youve safely arrived in behind a building hes for leaping out of the bushes and punishing someone with a free face exam using his melee weapons.

the deredeo is the king of shooting he is the best AAA platform in the game for marines no debates and he is an amazing anti-ground target shooter too, about the only thing he cant do is hurt av14

the contempor/mortis is sort of a good option for those who dont have the ironclad in their codex hes good at cc and short range shooting he can also take a volkite gun perfect for cracking terminators and marines open if you fight them regularly.

the chaplain dread is basically an extra expensive venerable, nothing to see here

the librarian dread is really only good for spell slining ever since the wings of sanguinius was removed he lost his silly flying dreadnaught gimmick so now hes just an usuaully strong dreadnaught with some magic hes not bad though

the death company dread and the murderfang are lofty goals dreads, their either going to eat whatever they touch or die doing nothing their a real gambling mans dread, again derpstrike is the way to play

bjorn is a beast in cc he would be better if cc was better as would space wolf dreads and their stormshields

You forgot to add the summary for the Leviathan Dreadnought (Just edit it in)

the leviathan is 30k only i thought

Leviathan is in 40k, but its not as good as its older counterpart.

The Leviathan is what the Ironclad wishes it was

 ionusx wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
the problem is that the dreadnaught is too flimsy to be upfront where he belongs, this being said certain dreads are good at shooting. the standard dread is basically worthless, the venerable is a good tank sniper i often take one with a lascannon and fist as a tank sniper he shoots when he cans from the back and fists anyone who deepstrikes in since its just one lascannon from a bacline coated in autocannons and lascannons he often goes skipped.

as for the ironclad hes designed for derpstriking, you drop in and then shoot someone after youve safely arrived in behind a building hes for leaping out of the bushes and punishing someone with a free face exam using his melee weapons.

the deredeo is the king of shooting he is the best AAA platform in the game for marines no debates and he is an amazing anti-ground target shooter too, about the only thing he cant do is hurt av14

the contempor/mortis is sort of a good option for those who dont have the ironclad in their codex hes good at cc and short range shooting he can also take a volkite gun perfect for cracking terminators and marines open if you fight them regularly.

the chaplain dread is basically an extra expensive venerable, nothing to see here

the librarian dread is really only good for spell slining ever since the wings of sanguinius was removed he lost his silly flying dreadnaught gimmick so now hes just an usuaully strong dreadnaught with some magic hes not bad though

the death company dread and the murderfang are lofty goals dreads, their either going to eat whatever they touch or die doing nothing their a real gambling mans dread, again derpstrike is the way to play

bjorn is a beast in cc he would be better if cc was better as would space wolf dreads and their stormshields

You forgot to add the summary for the Leviathan Dreadnought (Just edit it in)

the leviathan is 30k only

Nope, You can take 1 as a relic unit in a SM army

commander dante wrote:

 ionusx wrote:

commander dante wrote:

 ionusx wrote:
the problem is that the dreadnaught is too flimsy to be upfront where he belongs, this being said certain dreads are good at shooting. the standard dread is basically worthless, the venerable is a good tank sniper i often take one with a lascannon and fist as a tank sniper he shoots when he cans from the back and fists anyone who deepstrikes in since its just one lascannon from a bacline coated in autocannons and lascannons he often goes skipped.

as for the ironclad hes designed for derpstriking, you drop in and then shoot someone after youve safely arrived in behind a building hes for leaping out of the bushes and punishing someone with a free face exam using his melee weapons.

the deredeo is the king of shooting he is the best AAA platform in the game for marines no debates and he is an amazing anti-ground target shooter too, about the only thing he cant do is hurt av14

the contempor/mortis is sort of a good option for those who dont have the ironclad in their codex hes good at cc and short range shooting he can also take a volkite gun perfect for cracking terminators and marines open if you fight them regularly.

the chaplain dread is basically an extra expensive venerable, nothing to see here

the librarian dread is really only good for spell slining ever since the wings of sanguinius was removed he lost his silly flying dreadnaught gimmick so now hes just an usuaully strong dreadnaught with some magic hes not bad though

the death company dread and the murderfang are lofty goals dreads, their either going to eat whatever they touch or die doing nothing their a real gambling mans dread, again derpstrike is the way to play

bjorn is a beast in cc he would be better if cc was better as would space wolf dreads and their stormshields

You forgot to add the summary for the Leviathan Dreadnought (Just edit it in)

the leviathan is 30k only

Nope, You can take 1 as a relic unit in a SM army

alright well looking over its rules the leviathan is a cc mauling machine that can pulp a carnifex before you can say bobs your uncle, he has bad ranged weapons options though and essentially relies on his ability to get in close 24" on his only ranged weapons options is kind of sad. hes also got good armour, save, and has some cool magic resist but i dont see him being anything more than ironclad 2.0

Walkers in general suffer from being too slow and having AV instead of Toughness and Wounds. The only walkers that do good in our little group is our CSM guy using Maulerfiends, and that's because he often takes two so at least one will reach close combat. They're fast, they have an Inv save and once in CC few units can kill them.

I take one dread in my IronHands army with the assault cannon and SB/CCW. He isn't an allstar but he usually makes his points back. Having IWND is huge though since it helps to reduce the impact of glances. He gets one shotted every now and then but usually he last's the game.

The are overshadowed by the really awful current monstrous creatures rules and a lack of speed.

still totally cool in casual games but really competitive is so rules gacky they have no chance, they're just to much of an all rounder

GAdvance wrote:
The are overshadowed by the really awful current monstrous creatures rules and a lack of speed.

still totally cool in casual games but really competitive is so rules gacky they have no chance, they're just to much of an all rounder

Want speed? Take bikes.
Want firepower? Bikes, vehicles, devastators.....god, anything?
Staying power? Again, anything. AV12 3hp is fragile.
Anti-air? Storm talon, fortification, Stalker/hunter or very rarely the Deredeo if you can spare the points I suppose.
Close combat? Not sure why you'd want this at all, but Smash-fether or allies are the way to go here.

The problem with most of the dreads is the same as tactical marines. They are passable at many things, but best in slot at almost nothing.

The walker rules in general have needed a rework since 5th edition, but I don't see it happening. The current trend is to just make all the new "walkers" either monstrous creatures (Riptide, Dreadknight) or GMC/Superheavies (Wraithknights and Knights). This doesn't bode well for our walker friends.

In CC basic dread are not horrible. Obviously they have limits of what they can go up against. Anything with serious AV potential is going to rip them open, but for things that fight like troops, they can do well. Not that we generally need more of that in a list. But 4 S10 AP2 hits at initiative, with chapter tactics can cause some harm. Surviving to get to CC and how quickly it can engage are an issue, but that’s hardly unique to dreads.

But yeah, in general anything they can do can be done better, elsewhere. But if you want a jack-of-all-trades troubleshooter, they can be fun to have kicking about. But probably not in a hyper competitive list, which tend to get more milage out of leveraging your advantages, rather then reacting.