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Anyone knowledgeable care to share some wisdom?

Im looking for a budget gaming PC, I dont really know very much about computer specs these days.

So far Ive found these two.

http://www.dell.com/ca/p/inspiron-3656-desktop/pd?oc=di3656_btsb_h301re&model_id=inspiron-3656-desktop

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/acer-acer-aspire-desktop-pc-intel-ci7-4790-2tb-hdd-12gb-ram-windows-10-atc-705-eb54/10386566.aspx?path=8ddb6f1d7a08864494864370dd425466en02

Any thoughts? Are these trash?

What do you intend to use the PC for?

Games mostly.

I want something that at least has a dedicated graphics card.

No, no you do not. Onboard graphics cards suck. You want something that offers PCI-Ex slots that allows you to upgrade your video card as the need arises and/or allows you to install multiples of the same card to run linked in a crossfire configuration.

I would pass on the Dell, since they tend to cut a lot of corners on the hardware quality of their boards and chipsets. The Acer you linked seems to offer something along the lines of what I'm talking about, because that nVidia card listed on its specs is not an integrated chipset, but a separate GPU entirely.

This is a good thing, because it's a decent-enough baseline card and can also be swapped out for a newer model should finances allow.

ETA: Also, building one's own PC is not as difficult as many make it out to be. It is mostly a matter of inserting Tab A into Slot B. In most cases, you can, at the same price-point, build a superior machine than what you would buy off the shelf from another manufacturer. Sites like Tiger Direct and NewEgg sell the component pieces, it's just a matter of matching up the compatible parts.

If you want to go that route, first thing to do is choose what CPU you want (i7, AMD, whatever) and find a compatible motherboard for it (all CPUs will have a listed socket type, all motherboards will list what socket types they support,the sites I mentioned will often show you what boards fit what CPUs). Then the type and amount of RAM (my suggestion is minimum 12 GB DDR3, though DDR5 is available and superior), the GPU (hard to go wrong with nVidia, though Radeon has its fans), and the hard drive. 2TB seems to be the baseline standard, but from personal experience I have found it insufficient for my needs, but I do a lot of CGI and 3D rendering and am akin to the Tyranids in my consumption of media collected through various alternative means. If the motherboard supports it, you might want to go with a single 500GB SSD to put the OS on, and then have a 2TB or larger secondary hard drive to hold everything else. You can also just go with a single 2TB internal drive and an external USB storage drive to hold pictures, movies, etc. Lots of options in the storage area. DVD-RW is a given (optical drive, for running DVDs and installing off physical media), and USB slots will be included on the motherboard. Can never have too many USB slots.

Integrated sound cards seem to be the norm these days and are, generally speaking, sufficient for most needs. If you want to run a full home entertainment system off your PC, though, you might want to consider an after-market soundcard.

Last and certainly critical, is a power supply unit. I recommend at least 1200W, because a lot of the modern hardware (especially GPUs) are power-hungry, and will require a higher draw when under load. PSUs come in a variety of connection types, again keyed to certain motherboards, so be sure to get a PSU that fits your board, if you decide to go the home-built route.

And that brings us to the final part: The operating system. Unless you are running certain legacy applications, you cannot go wrong with a 64-bit OS. Absolutely cannot go wrong, and the advantages of a 64-bit OS over a 32-bit OS will, in almost all cases, override the loss of those few 32-bit apps that absolutely cannot run on a 64-bit system. *Most* 32-bit apps will run just fine in a 64-bit environment, unless you are for whatever reason running some ancient FORTRAN architecture or some similar insanity.

You can build a hell of a computer for the prices of what you're looking at there. Build your own is my best advice. If you REALLY don't think you can handle it, maybe see if there's a friend you can buy a six pack for to help you put it together or something. At the computer shop I worked at some 10 years ago, we would do custom builds for roughly $40, assuming they got the parts from us. It's not a very intensive process, all things considered.

That being said, Ouze's Law states something along the lines of "Dakka is mediocre at best for computer advice." Go look at tomshardware or somewhere like that for reasonable and well thought out computer builds. This isn't a good place for it.

 Psienesis wrote:
Last and certainly critical, is a power supply unit. I recommend at least 1200W, because a lot of the modern hardware (especially GPUs) are power-hungry, and will require a higher draw when under load. PSUs come in a variety of connection types, again keyed to certain motherboards, so be sure to get a PSU that fits your board, if you decide to go the home-built route.

Unless you're running three to four video cards, or a pair of high end GTX Titans, 1200w is overkill and a bit of a waste of money if on a budget. I splurged a bit on a good EVGA 850w, but even the 750 version would have no problems handling a pair of GTX 970s. Although, AMD is usually a bit more power hungry compared to it's Nvidia counterparts, so that is something to keep in mind.

Anyway, for some ideas on what you can build at various budgets, you can take a look here:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/#sort=a2&page=1

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Last and certainly critical, is a power supply unit. I recommend at least 1200W, because a lot of the modern hardware (especially GPUs) are power-hungry, and will require a higher draw when under load. PSUs come in a variety of connection types, again keyed to certain motherboards, so be sure to get a PSU that fits your board, if you decide to go the home-built route.

Unless you're running three to four video cards, or a pair of high end GTX Titans, 1200w is overkill and a bit of a waste of money if on a budget. I splurged a bit on a good EVGA 850w, but even the 750 version would have no problems handling a pair of GTX 970s. Although, AMD is usually a bit more power hungry compared to it's Nvidia counterparts, so that is something to keep in mind.

Anyway, for some ideas on what you can build at various budgets, you can take a look here:
https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/#sort=a2&page=1

https://pcpartpicker.com/guide/8QG323/700-bang-for-buck-pc-build-intel-i5-4460r9-390

Im interested in this. The CPU includes the heat sink? and all necessary cords to build it are included with the parts?

Im assuming all the prices are USD so it would cost me well over 1000 once shipping and exchange rate is added into the equation... Hmm, not that wonderful I guess.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819117302&cm_re=Intel_Core_i5-4460_3.2GHz_Quad-Core_Processor-_-19-117-302-_-Product

Oh look.

Wonderful Canadian prices...

fething bs

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Order=BESTMATCH&Description=+%09+PowerColor+Radeon+R9+390+8GB+PCS%2B+Video+Card+&N=-1&isNodeId=1

LOL, 700 gets me the processor and the video card.

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/asus-asus-m32bf-desktop-pc-brushed-grey-amd-a10-7800-2tb-hdd-12gb-ram-r7-graphics-windows-10-m32bf-ca005t/10394140.aspx?path=61271d810bd4928689bc552b763c5e4een02

What about this one?

The price and discount looks right. Would it be possible to put a good graphics card into it or would the motherboard or whatever not support it?

They don't list the board specs, so hard to say for certain, but the images show that the case has four available slots in the back that should be aligned with PCI-E slots on the board... assuming the board has any. Most modern GPU take up two of those slots. However, it comes stock with a 300W PSU, which is fairly low-end. My GPU, for example, would not even turn on at that level, let alone render 3D graphics.

The customer reviews suggest it's solid enough, and at that price it's hard to beat.

Apparently you have to crossfire it with a certain GPU or something because the APU already has a built in graphics card. Some people are saying the crossfire actually decreases performance.

Or just reading now. It only works with R7 240 and R7 250.

Maybe I should buy that computer and put in an R7????




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, i read all the benchmarks. The crossfire only works on certain games and is useless on others. On the ones that it works on, the performance is only equal to or lower than an intel chip +video card.

The only two graphic cards it works with are outdated. Screw it, i wont be buying that computer.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321916843131

What do you think of this one?

Not a big fan of Windows 8, personally, but YMMV, and that one appears ready for the Win10 upgrade (which I am a fan of). The board specs are decent, able to put in an upgraded GPU and such if and when you desire. For the price, not a bad option.

kb305 wrote:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321916843131

What do you think of this one?

I think I'd avoid HP prebuilts, especially if I'm paying extra for things I won't need while not getting things I do need.

An i7 CPU and 16gb RAM sounds nice, but you won't need it for any games. An i5 CPU (hopefully K for OC) is more than enough, and so is 8gb RAM.

The graphics card on the other hand is still crap, and the crappy HP PSU will probably have to be swapped for a real one if you want any upgrades like more drives or a GPU that uses extra power. It's not like these cheapskates give you any more power cables than they have to (keeps the case tidy and the PSU a bit cheaper). HP cases are also absolutely horrible to work with.

He said he would take 700 and free shipping.

You have to be careful with oem stuff like Dells and HPs if you are thinking about upgrading. I was lucky enough to receive a fairly decent Dell machine but was unable to upgrade too far due to the crappy PSU. I went to change the PSU to something meatier but it had a mini atx connection, so I could only replace the PSU with another Dell one and the max they did for my machine is a 305w. This really restricted me to what I could upgrade my GPU to and I had to go for a 750ti, it's a pretty good budget card but wont be running anything on Ultra settings.

What about something like

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/INTEL-i5-4690K-3-5GHz-QUAD-CORE-8GB-GAMING-PC-COMPUTER-CUSTOM-BUILT-SYSTEM-WOW-/321898538727?hash=item4af2a5e6e7:g:KGAAAOSwhcJWJkx3

8gb RAM should be plenty for gaming. A 1TB hard drive should be ok too. Just on board Graphics which wouldn't be great, it's got Intel HD Graphics 4600 so you could probably do stuff on it at low setting until you get a new GPU. If you keep the 500w PSU you might want to get something like a 950.

 Pilau Rice wrote:
You have to be careful with oem stuff like Dells and HPs if you are thinking about upgrading. I was lucky enough to receive a fairly decent Dell machine but was unable to upgrade too far due to the crappy PSU. I went to change the PSU to something meatier but it had a mini atx connection, so I could only replace the PSU with another Dell one and the max they did for my machine is a 305w. This really restricted me to what I could upgrade my GPU to and I had to go for a 750ti, it's a pretty good budget card but wont be running anything on Ultra settings.

What about something like

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/INTEL-i5-4690K-3-5GHz-QUAD-CORE-8GB-GAMING-PC-COMPUTER-CUSTOM-BUILT-SYSTEM-WOW-/321898538727?hash=item4af2a5e6e7:g:KGAAAOSwhcJWJkx3

8gb RAM should be plenty for gaming. A 1TB hard drive should be ok too. Just on board Graphics which wouldn't be great, it's got Intel HD Graphics 4600 so you could probably do stuff on it at low setting until you get a new GPU. If you keep the 500w PSU you might want to get something like a 950.

it's 800 Canadian w/o a video card before tax . If there's import fees as well i better start lubing up.

Thanks for telling about the PSU though. That is a pain in the ass.

Does anyone know if it's possible to upgrade the PSU on that HP?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/321916843131

I can't speak to that specific case but in my experience it's typically very, very difficult to swap out power supplies on HP, Compaq, & Dell computers. Although they use standard ATX power connectors, they often have unusual form factors, cord lengths, and mounting systems making it very difficult to physically fit a standard power supply in the case. For example:



Unless you can crack it open and take a peek, the rule of thumb is that for a HP or Dell PC, you're stuck with the PSU and Motherboard it came with.



I suggest you look here: http://www.tomshardware.com/articles/?tag=build-your-own

And start a thread here with questions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Looking at it some more, it looks like you can probably swap the PSU out. It's looks like nearly standard build. Your mileage may vary, this is what I found with some brief googling, I could be wrong.

There are still some issues, though. For one, I'm not sure how possible it will be to swap out the video card later: it's a pretty cramped setup in there. It looks like the DIMMS might maybe block a full-length card. Additionally, I'd be concerned with the voltage to the 12v rail since these big-box PC's are usually pretty tightly engineered for those specific builds. Probably not a problem but can't rule it out.

You also should consider that for the cost of buying that PC, then buying a new PSU and a new video card, you could have certainly bought the exact right PC the first time and for probably less.

Honestly if you can remember to ground yourself and follow a youtube video you can build your own. Cheaper and you get to learn your specs. Building a PC sounds/looks daunting, but it really is (nowadays) mostly plug and play, and move a few wires

 conker249 wrote:
Honestly if you can remember to ground yourself and follow a youtube video you can build your own. Cheaper and you get to learn your specs. Building a PC sounds/looks daunting, but it really is (nowadays) mostly plug and play, and move a few wires

its not even cheap. a 600 canadian build your own is like 250-300 in america. and gakky.

Didn't see the Canada flag there. changes things,
disregard

kb305 wrote:
its not even cheap. a 600 canadian build your own is like 250-300 in america.

Well, that's true. You poor guys get kicked in the groin by exchange rates even worse than the aussies, but please bear in mind that we poor EU citizens also often pay more in (higher value) Euros than the yanks pay in US dollars thanks to our taxation system...

Repeat after me - i5, 8gb RAM, decent graphics. This is what you want from a gaming PC. If it comes built into a real decent case to begin with you can use those HP units for something they're actually good as, like weights on a fishing net or the foundation of a landfill.

Like Ouze says, without cracking the case open you aren't going to know.

If you want a gaming rig, build your own. Save the money and get it when you can afford one. Don't get a HP or Dell as you're going to be stuck with something that you might not be able to do anything with and might end up costing you more.

Got the hp. Hoping to put in gtx950 and call it done.
Or some other mid range card

Got cash back cause case was damaged.
PSU is good. 950 gtx fit and is working!
Got witcher 3 maxed.

TY to everyone that offered advice.

Honestly, I think you should ditch both Bestbuy and Dell's websites, as others have mentioned you can get much better for cheaper elsewhere...


Personally, I'd start at a custom site like ibuypower.com

I've used them in the past, especially once I got too lazy to use newegg.com and build it my damn self. I personally have never had a problem with an ibuypower rig that I've bought, including a "deployment laptop"