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I'm very interested in the DKOK artillery since the theme is exactly what i'm looking for in an army but since it would mostly be focused on artillery with the swarms of SM players out there they seem basically useless because of drop pods. Are they even somewhat competitive or would they be a shelf display army?

If you are just in it for the cannons, and don't care much for loyalists, the varks renegades do artillery spam better with purge detachment nurgle artillery tyrant.
Tons of cannons for firepower, tons of zombies for bubble wrap no drop zone. (seriously, just made a mock list, can fit 12 artillery carriages and 80 zombies and 80 zombies in 1000 points)

Can you still use the DKOK guardsmen and artillery models? the aesthetics of them are amazing and one of the other main reasons I want to collect.

I'd guess it's possible, most renegades started as loyalists...
More of a local thing on how they regard conversion/countas armies.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Can you still use the DKOK guardsmen and artillery models? the aesthetics of them are amazing and one of the other main reasons I want to collect.

Yes, of course. The traitor list is still guardsmen and artillery, all of the models can be WYSIWYG. Objecting to using DKoK models with the traitor list is like refusing to play against someone's C:SM army because they aren't painted the exact correct shade of blue to be Ultramarines.

As for whether they're good, they can be, but not with a CAD. Their troops are awful so you'll want to use the special death rider detachment. Death riders as "troops", plenty of artillery, and just enough meatshield infantry to screen the big guns.

If you want to play DKOK then play the Renegades of Vraks army list.

Do either Ordnance Tyrant (or is it artillery tyrant? My book is on the shelf and I'm lazy), Master of the Horde, or Arch Heretic Revolutionary.. or w/e. Basically the one for tons of arty, tons of never stopping respawning troops, or super loyal troops that are hard as hell to turn away.

Whilst the renegades are, at a glance, much more easy to make run than kriegsmen.. Simply buy every squad a vox caster and a sign of chaos. It makes them almost impossible to make run via shooting, and makes them much harder to move in CC / pin than the Death Korps usually are.

You can use the models for krieg with the list no problem, and the sad but true truth is that these lists are a much more accurate representation of how the Korps wage war than the actual Death Korps list itself. =/

Awesome, I hate loyalists with a passion anyways! Where can I find the rules for this renegade list? Also what are some good units I must have?

Now I want to play my Imperial Guard as renegades. Would be an interesting change of pace. Maybe splash some red on them and they can be The Blood Pact.

There are two renegade army lists, each with it's own upsides and downsides.

IA13 has the "generic renegades", and the Siege of Varks has the other one.
Pick the varks one, its better for the style you are after
Only varks has the ordenace tyrant, who is the artillery expert-very krieg. its even more mind boggling with the "Purge" FoC from varks, where your entire army can be nothing but the command squad, and from there on spam nothing but artillery, not even troops, just cannons. (who will also cause difficult terrain to be left in the wake-for lolz)

They also have the "Unending Host" FoC in varks, also very krieg. (and while not very tested, its possibly OP as feth in levels that make gladius and daemon summoning drool in envy of how much free stuff you get.)


You can read here to have a general idea of what you have to look for:
http://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Renegades_and_Heretics%287E%29#Vraks_Renegade_Unending_Host


Renegades in general is a very brutal army. you'll need tons of models, as part of the concept is that everything is so godamn cheap its criminal. (for example-sentinels may not be much-but heavy flamer sentinels at 20 points!?)


Purge artillery spam versus Unending Host will quite possibly be the most absurd matchup possible in the game. "Carpet bomb ALL the things!", "Replace ALL the minions!"

So just to make sure im right, its this book that is the correct, up to date book? http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-JP/Imperial-Armour-The-Siege-of-Vraks;jsessionid=77EBE819CB634DF31504E8A5278B7E49?_requestid=3666619

Dang that is a rather hefty price tag just to play renegades. I think I will stick to 1d4chan and battle scribe for my rules xD

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Dang that is a rather hefty price tag just to play renegades. I think I will stick to 1d4chan and battle scribe for my rules xD

I personally want to play in tournaments so thats a no go.

little bumb here, what are some must have units for a good siege list that I wont autolose, point value at 1500-2500

When you say "siege list", do you mean arty spam? The siege list (as in the name with literally siege in it) is Korps, where as this thread seems to indicate you're looking to play Renegades using Korps models.

In essence what exactly do you mean when you say 'siege list'.

Oh sorry, I dont have the books yet, but end result for my army that I would like is quite a lot of artillery, be it tanks, immobile guns or motors. I know how important objectives are though, so I also want to have some infantry for screening and objective nabbing. renegades would be cool because I really hate imperial but if imperial list gives me significant siege bonuses I suppose I could use them as lotalists.

I will give you an example list I play. Honestly though there is a huge amount of leeway. All you really need is to cover your targeting priorities (heavy artillery carriages for AP3 and vehicles, wyverns for anti cover, etc.), board control elements (zombies, allies, lots of spawn, etc.), and mobile scoring needs (spawn or KDK allies usually). There is actually a lot you can do with these lists, especially with allies in the mix.




BTW if you are interested in the Death Korps of Krieg Siege list there is actually some pretty good strengths you cannot get from the Renegades lists. Mostly these are the access to Imperial Knight LoW and vastly better allies that can be mixed in.

I would prefer no allies, or chaos at most. I just want to maximise my list because with my current armies anti air and anti armour are problems, and with a normal CAD the DKOK cant really fit many fun toys in.

The R&H army list is basically built on simply, inexpensive, and heavily redundant units. Literally the only thing in your army which you will need to worry about losing is going to be your Arch Demagoge with the devotion. Everything else is cheap as chips and easily thrown away.

Stay away from the various veteran and 'specialist' units as they're pretty poor. Disciples and Veterans are both extraordinarily over-costed for what they bring to bear and hamstrung with regards to having poor weapon selections (you can take 1 plasma / melt in a disciple squad, and 2 in a vet squad if you take 10 vets for over 10 points each...). Cannon fodder is the name of the game.

But that cannon fodder is extraordinarily good, because you don't pay for anything you won't use. Generally, if running an arty list, your troops choices are going to be there just to big down your enemy and maybe drown a few things in weak shots / attacks, so keep them on the cheap side. It's rarely worth it to invest in special equipment of the moral including quality. For the cost of making it so that 3 squads are less likely to flee, you can simply grab another 10 guys and give your enemy another target / more boots. Special weapons are, likewise, rarely worth investing in with the exception of flamers. Piss-poor BS means that you'll score few hits.

The heavy lifters of the codex depend a lot on what devotion your Demagog is going to be using.

Master of the Horde, especially in his specific detachment, makes it so that your infantry squads are going to be brutal. 30 men with 6 melta guns and BS 3, get a 3+ cover save when receiving cover from a friendly squad, when completely destroyed enter ongoing reserves on a 2+ roll and arrive with outflanking and fleet. That costs 160 points, it's insane.

Ordnance Tyrant is my favorite and the best, especially in The Purge detachment. You can take big guns in heavy and elite slots (and you have something like 6 elite slots and 6 heavy slots), you can take small guns in your troop slots (troops are not mandatory), every template you fire stays in play for your enemies turn as dangerous terrain.. And you can fire barrage weapons into melee combats.

The heavy lifters of the codex, in my opinion, would be as Renegade Strike Batteries (wyverns and griffons are both good), field artillery batteries (quad guns), Heavy Ordnance Batteries (all), and Infantry Platoons.

If you doubt the platoons, just imagine the havoc that thirty screaming cultists can wreak with all of them having krak grenades.. At a cost of 100 points total for the whole squad.

 morganfreeman wrote:
And you can fire barrage weapons into melee combats.

THAT is really awesome and will help me out a whole lot! Are they able to take the breaching drill? My friend runs imp knights and that cutter would really help out I think. Also, what that guys link the correct book for the renegades/seige list? The one that's titled "IMPERIAL ARMOUR - THE SIEGE OF VRAKS" I see that book but also siege of varaks parts 1,2,3.

 cosmicsoybean wrote:
Are they able to take the breaching drill?

No. Only the DKoK siege list can take the current rules, and IG can take an older version (or the newer one if you want to be generous).

Also, what that guys link the correct book for the renegades/seige list? The one that's titled "IMPERIAL ARMOUR - THE SIEGE OF VRAKS" I see that book but also siege of varaks parts 1,2,3.

IA:Vraks is current. The original three-part Vraks series is now obsolete and has been combined into a single book. You might miss some fluff if you ignore the old books, but none of the rules are valid anymore.

Ah alright. Now to find the dang thing! Cant find a single copy on ebay for reasonable price

Well, if you are not in a Purge detachment, you should also look to sentinels in the fast attack slot (as purge has no fast attack)

Yes, I'm serious, sentinels.

They may be reduced to BS2, they are as flimsy as ever-but load them up with a heavy flamer and they clock at mere 20 points per walker. once again-what won't be solved by quality, will be solved by quantity. fielding an obscene amount of 15 of them will clock at just 300 points.



You won't find IA books in Ebay often though, especially not ones as new as the new varks. they are what you'll call "specialty product", the people who buy them have zero intention to sell.