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hi, i'm new here, i've stopped by a few times, but now i made an account

i was playin a game a bit ago, and long story short, the other guy was pretty much losing because the dice were trying to kill him.
i had a C'tan Shard of the Nightbringer, who mind you wasn't able to do anything until the last 2 turns of the game because i was using him for counter assault for when my Warriors got blitzed and he was hiding behind a Monolith for nearly the whole game to stay out of LoS of his long range weps. when he got to come out and play he ate several models at a stroke.

but afterwords he really gave me alot... ALOT of hell for having a "unique character" in my army and the way we tend to play is no "named" or "special" characters in our armies.

i was under the impression that Necrons like Nemesor Zahndrekh, Orikan the Diviner, or Trazyn the Infinite, ect. fell under this category.

the Shard of theNightbringer, Deceiver, Transcendent C'tan and Tesseract Vault fell into the normal units for their Star-God formation so i was assuming that they are just Unique "standard units" that restrict you to having just one in your army. (not sure whats with the unique thing anyways, the "Shard" of the Nightbringer and Deceiver seem to imply there are more than "one" of them)

not even sure what he got so huffy about anyways, as far as i read the C'tan Shards are currently being hailed as under-powered and a waste of points, but i wanted to see if i could make one "work"

so i dunno, i'd just like to know if i should be apologizing for even having it there or tell him to suck it up, it's not a special character, deal with it? (i've only really been playing for like 6 months or so. so help a guy out here?)

A local guy is complaining based on the local rules they use locally. The point is, someone who isn't local doesn't really have a say on who or what they decide to arbitrarily ban in games despite it being legal in all forms of 40k. That is really something for you to discuss with them about what qualifies for their made up restrictions. Just because logically the Shards are all over the place doesn't mean this group won't decide that it doesn't matter and say it should be banned too. That's the problem with banning things all willy-nilly.

If the model has the Unique keyword in its unit composition, which the C'Tan Shard of the Nightbringer does, then it is a unique named model.

However the majority of named characters are usually pretty bad for the point cost. Not to say all of them - Chief Librarian Tigurius, Kairos Fateweaver or Be'lakor for example are all really good models. But that's generally because they have 1 particular rule which, when combined with a specific strategy, becomes very strong.

Complaining about having Unique characters on the field is pretty weak. They may have a point if you are using say Tigurius or Be'lakor to guarantee specific Psychic Powers, or Fateweaver to re-roll failed Grimoire of True Names checks, but only if you were bringing an ultra-competitive list to a casual friendly game. I'd be telling him to suck it up for sure.

well we have kind of a standing rule of "no special characters", but the Shards hardly seemed "special" to me. jeez i can field 6 Capoptek Wraiths for the same cost and they can shred through cannon fodder just as well if not better lol.

RAW: he's unique

RAI: he's not

I would start with the name. C'tan Shard. He's only one piece, so there are more like him and therefore not unique.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
RAW: he's unique

RAI: he's not

I would start with the name. C'tan Shard. He's only one piece, so there are more like him and therefore not unique.

that is what i was thinking, just couldn't put it into words yet. still a lot about the game i am clueless on

although side note i even had a neat idea to pair it up with a Necron Lord with the Shroud of Fear (2+armor save) and a Phase Shifter (4+ invul) to absorb hits for it as it moved in.... that idea immediately was shot down when i looked in the rules, that characters can't join units containing monstrous creatures lol

kinda surprised people still have this bias against named units in 7th edition. Most the time there over costed for what they do,

I would assume the ban is because of how unfluffy it is to bring a named character, not due to how powerful they are.

I also dislike playing with them because it feels stupid to have a legendary guy die in a minor skirmish.

That being said, I wouldn't tell someone they couldn't play with it if they wanted to, that's stupid.

I hate it when local metas ban units that other people would enjoy.

eleven11 wrote:
I would assume the ban is because of how unfluffy it is to bring a named character, not due to how powerful they are.

It can also be rather dull to see the same named character every game.

"Oh, I see Draigo has decided to lend his presence to yet another minor skirmish involving no daemons whatsoever."

Given that he's complaining you won because you have one of the least powerful choices in that slot, I think your opponent was just salty he lost. If he was complaining about you bringing 10 Wraiths or an Eldar Wraithknight, that's more understandable. But no one complains about a C'tan.

As one or two have pointed out, and others glazed over, you need to determine if the model is allowable or not under the local groups house rules with, well, the local group. Asking us is not helpful int the least.

To be fair of all the unique units if any one is showing up all over the place it's the C'tan. I also choice to look at named characters as a fixed back dropped. counts as conversions/ scratch built leads to some cool models.

 troa wrote:
As one or two have pointed out, and others glazed over, you need to determine if the model is allowable or not under the local groups house rules with, well, the local group. Asking us is not helpful int the least.

well i was just looking for a public opinion if he really got all huffy over nothing, or if the Nightbringer Shard is or should really be considered a "special" character and technically shouldn't be "unique".

but side note, i do think some of the named characters are cool, but prefer to make up my own "characters"
like my Lord Shazar here. he rolls with my Deathmarks unit

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10204708814066408&set=a.10204430045537369.1073741835.1418200562&type=3&theater

Unfortunately, I believe its fairly clear that you brought a named unit.
It even has a special ability not available to the other C'Tan that goes with the name.
As generally poor as the C'Tan are, no one should complain about using it.

I would suggest that the Transcendent C'Tan is the generic C'Tan.

Gunther wrote:
Unfortunately, I believe its fairly clear that you brought a named unit.
It even has a special ability not available to the other C'Tan that goes with the name.
As generally poor as the C'Tan are, no one should complain about using it.

I would suggest that the Transcendent C'Tan is the generic C'Tan.

i haven't checked on this one in a bit, but i kinda get where you're coming from, but all 3, (4 if you count the Tesseract Vault) have abilities the others don't

yeah they all get Fearless and Eternal Warrior
Immune to Natural Law and Necrodermis.
Nightbringer gets Fleshbane, Gaze of Death and has a higher WS
Deciever gets Hit & Run, Dread, Grand Illusion and has a better BS
Transcendent gets Deep Strike, Writhing Landscape, equal WS & BS, more S and more W

technically i would end up going with the Transcendent when i have one ready, seems like a more ability balanced unit that doesn't specialize in one area and weak in another. bonus: it's not "unique" so no one will call foul on me