Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've got a really nice skaven army and a cracker of a ogre army. The new aos thing is soooo poor I don't want to play at all. Anyone have any balances rules points lists to let me use my he models in hordes ?

Can't speak for Hordes, but Kings of War is the 'spiritual successor' to WHFB, and has lists for both Ogres (in the main book) and Skaven ('Ratkin' in the Unremembered Empires book).

jonny5 wrote:
I've got a really nice skaven army and a cracker of a ogre army. The new aos thing is soooo poor I don't want to play at all. Anyone have any balances rules points lists to let me use my he models in hordes ?

Sadly no.

Now in a friendly game at a store/club/house. I'm sure most people would let you proxy to try things out. In a tournament setting it would be a huge no go, for the simple reason that games are timed (either deathclock or timed turns) and your opponant needs to be able to look at the table and know what is what.

jonny5 wrote:
I've got a really nice skaven army and a cracker of a ogre army. The new aos thing is soooo poor I don't want to play at all. Anyone have any balances rules points lists to let me use my he models in hordes ?

You mean to port wfb armies over to wmh? Or just use them as proxies?

Because the wmh world doesn't have ratmen, and it's 'ogres' are called ogrun and are markedly different from wfb ogres, and actually, are not represented by a 'faction', but a handful of individual solo characters.

If you're looking to get into wmh, that's an entirely different question altogether.

If the question is, "Can I use my Games Workshop Skaven Army in a game of Privateer Press' Hordes game?" I have no idea what a Skaven army would even "count as" in Hordes. Legion are a bunch of blighted (corrupted) elves and created monsters that worship a Dragon, Trolls are, well, Trolls, a fully developed nation state trying to win their own country. Circle are a group full of Druids and warped forest creatures that use elemental/blood magic and want to bring about the end of the world. Skorne are a martial race of- well, pretty unique race with no general fantasy analog who worship dead ancestors, have a unique culture from the "Far East" of the game, and enslave desert beasts to do their bidding.

The minions faction is basically divided into several "races" of giant alligators, Bog Trogs (semi-aquatic race), Farrow (primitive Boarmen), and a few other little sub races.

There really is no race or faction like the Skaven in Hordes. Ogres would be close to Trolls, but Hordes as Ogryn which are different then Ogres. Ogre models are far too big to represent anything in Hordes. Base size is critical and you can't swap base sizes in Hordes. You would have to rebase your entire army to play Hordes.

Your best bet to continue playing a Fantasy game with GW models is Kings of War. Sorry mate, your facing the same dilemma that just about every other GW Fantasy player is having right now. I wish you luck! I too, have a large Skaven army, and it's basically sitting on a shelf right now gathering dust. I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna eBay it (and probably make like $10 as everyone else is off loading their armies as well).

 Tamwulf wrote:
If the question is, "Can I use my Games Workshop Skaven Army in a game of Privateer Press' Hordes game?" I have no idea what a Skaven army would even "count as" in Hordes. Legion are a bunch of blighted (corrupted) elves and created monsters that worship a Dragon, Trolls are, well, Trolls, a fully developed nation state trying to win their own country. Circle are a group full of Druids and warped forest creatures that use elemental/blood magic and want to bring about the end of the world. Skorne are a martial race of- well, pretty unique race with no general fantasy analog who worship dead ancestors, have a unique culture from the "Far East" of the game, and enslave desert beasts to do their bidding.

The minions faction is basically divided into several "races" of giant alligators, Bog Trogs (semi-aquatic race), Farrow (primitive Boarmen), and a few other little sub races.

There really is no race or faction like the Skaven in Hordes. Ogres would be close to Trolls, but Hordes as Ogryn which are different then Ogres. Ogre models are far too big to represent anything in Hordes. Base size is critical and you can't swap base sizes in Hordes. You would have to rebase your entire army to play Hordes.

Your best bet to continue playing a Fantasy game with GW models is Kings of War. Sorry mate, your facing the same dilemma that just about every other GW Fantasy player is having right now. I wish you luck! I too, have a large Skaven army, and it's basically sitting on a shelf right now gathering dust. I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna eBay it (and probably make like $10 as everyone else is off loading their armies as well).

Agreed.
The problem is, the rules of WMH models actually match the fluff, so proxing won't really feel right.
If you play in a close group, you can try to write your own rules, but that would take a lot of work and play testing.
Sell it and use the proceeds to buy into WMH?
Play KOW?
I wish there was an easy answer for you. Most of us have been where you are now.

Thanks guys. It was worth a try. I guess it's going to have to sit on the shelf for the future I couldn't part with it. One day maybe .....

Yeah, I would also recommend Kings of War. That game has army lists for Skaven (Ratkin) and Ogres. It's also really proxy-friendly because of how little individuals models matter within the footprint of a unit. Base sizes matter a lot in WMH, so it's harder to proxy in stuff there.

 Tamwulf wrote:
If the question is, "Can I use my Games Workshop Skaven Army in a game of Privateer Press' Hordes game?" I have no idea what a Skaven army would even "count as" in Hordes. Legion are a bunch of blighted (corrupted) elves and created monsters that worship a Dragon, Trolls are, well, Trolls, a fully developed nation state trying to win their own country. Circle are a group full of Druids and warped forest creatures that use elemental/blood magic and want to bring about the end of the world. Skorne are a martial race of- well, pretty unique race with no general fantasy analog who worship dead ancestors, have a unique culture from the "Far East" of the game, and enslave desert beasts to do their bidding.

The minions faction is basically divided into several "races" of giant alligators, Bog Trogs (semi-aquatic race), Farrow (primitive Boarmen), and a few other little sub races.

There really is no race or faction like the Skaven in Hordes. Ogres would be close to Trolls, but Hordes as Ogryn which are different then Ogres. Ogre models are far too big to represent anything in Hordes. Base size is critical and you can't swap base sizes in Hordes. You would have to rebase your entire army to play Hordes.

Your best bet to continue playing a Fantasy game with GW models is Kings of War. Sorry mate, your facing the same dilemma that just about every other GW Fantasy player is having right now. I wish you luck! I too, have a large Skaven army, and it's basically sitting on a shelf right now gathering dust. I'm pretty sure I'm just gonna eBay it (and probably make like $10 as everyone else is off loading their armies as well).

The closest analog for Skaven in WMH is Cephalyx. Though Dreggs would be better, but they're not represented on the tabletop.

 Grimtuff wrote:


The closest analog for Skaven in WMH is Cephalyx. Though Dreggs would be better, but they're not represented on the tabletop.

That would be a HUGE stretch. Cephalyx are very, very few, trading their souls for dark, necromanic magic. They corrupt/change living creatures for some enigmatic purpose. They have an agenda/secret plan just like the other "evil" factions in Warmachine/Hordes. On the table, you see 1-2 Cephalyx, and a bunch of their creations. They hold back, buffing their monstrosities.

Skaven are, well, rats that consume warpstone, mutate, and are without number. There are 4 (or 5?) factions within the Skaven- the Assassins, the Warriors, the Plague guys, and the Engineers, with the Greyseers/council above them all. Each of these factions have their own agendas, and each one plays very different.

There is far, far more differences between the Cephalyx and Skaven then similarities.

I would actually say the Minion Farrow would be much closer to the Skaven then the Cephalyx. Farrow- life is cheap, lots of little guys, they "make" their warbeasts by surgery/magic/mutation, their leader (Lord Carver) is an evil, maniacal, egotistical Farrow that believes he's the Messiah here to conquer the world. Yeah, the Farrow would be a better match.

As I said above, the army is far to different to adopt it for play in Hordes. He'd have to come up with bases for all his Skaven models and rebase everything. Farrow Brigands, the mainstay of the Farrow army, are armed with Pig Irons and clubs. He'd have to come up with basically muskets for all his rat troops. Rat Ogres would be close to War Hogs and Road Hogs, but again, the scale would be off, he'd have to rebase them, and represent their weapons on the model. The Farrow have a Meat Thresher battle engine, and the Skaven have nothing like it. He could probably convert a Hell Pit Abomination for it. Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace could probably be adopted, but... just yeah, so much work for his army, and if he's like any Skaven player, he has HUNDREDS of models, but in Hordes, he might play with around 30 in a 50 point game.

It just sounds like a whole lot of extra work, with little to no gain, and even then, he would never be allowed to play the army in an "Official" Privateer Press event.

I was more shooting for the whole "subterrainian empire under civilised society that is thought to be myth by said society" thing, but whatever.

the bigger issue is that basing is important in WMHDs, everything would need to be on round 30/40/50/120mm bases in order to play.

 Tamwulf wrote:

That would be a HUGE stretch. Cephalyx are very, very few, trading their souls for dark, necromanic magic. They corrupt/change living creatures for some enigmatic purpose. They have an agenda/secret plan just like the other "evil" factions in Warmachine/Hordes. On the table, you see 1-2 Cephalyx, and a bunch of their creations. They hold back, buffing their monstrosities.

I would actually say the Minion Farrow would be much closer to the Skaven then the Cephalyx. Farrow- life is cheap, lots of little guys, they "make" their warbeasts by surgery/magic/mutation, their leader (Lord Carver) is an evil, maniacal, egotistical Farrow that believes he's the Messiah here to conquer the world. Yeah, the Farrow would be a better match.

Have you read the forces of war:cephalyx book Tamwulf? It opens them up quite nicely as a race. Theirs is not dark necromantic Magic, but more psionic/psychic manipulation of matter. They're a race of telepaths who like brain surgery. And they do have a plan.

Regarding Lord carver, he always struck me as a Conan the boar-barian type of warlord that's been ham-fisted into the setting. Ok I'll stop now

Deadnight wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:

That would be a HUGE stretch. Cephalyx are very, very few, trading their souls for dark, necromanic magic. They corrupt/change living creatures for some enigmatic purpose. They have an agenda/secret plan just like the other "evil" factions in Warmachine/Hordes. On the table, you see 1-2 Cephalyx, and a bunch of their creations. They hold back, buffing their monstrosities.

I would actually say the Minion Farrow would be much closer to the Skaven then the Cephalyx. Farrow- life is cheap, lots of little guys, they "make" their warbeasts by surgery/magic/mutation, their leader (Lord Carver) is an evil, maniacal, egotistical Farrow that believes he's the Messiah here to conquer the world. Yeah, the Farrow would be a better match.

Have you read the forces of war:cephalyx book Tamwulf? It opens them up quite nicely as a race. Theirs is not dark necromantic Magic, but more psionic/psychic manipulation of matter. They're a race of telepaths who like brain surgery. And they do have a plan.

Regarding Lord carver, he always struck me as a Conan the boar-barian type of warlord that's been ham-fisted into the setting. Ok I'll stop now

I didn't read the Cephalyx book. The design of the models, background stuff, etc. etc. just did not interest me at all. I was going off the write up in the old Monsternomicon and from the Witchfire series. Every evil faction has a plan in Warmchine/Hordes. Yet, the "good guys" never have a plan, and seem to just stumble through the setting, falling into every evil trap and barely escaping via the heroic actions of the protagonists (usually a Warcaster), and always "...at a great cost....".

Lord Carver from what I understand, was kind of a Conan-style figure, until Dr. Arkadius came along and convinced him that he should rule the world through Divine Providence. He somehow convinced Carver that he was royalty and had a divine right to rule. Carver is smart enough to know he is being played, but everything is going the way Arkadius said it would, so...

That's the main reason why the Farrow are one of my favorite factions. No big, grandiose plans to harvest souls to feed to some enigmatic engine of something that will do something else, no Empire Expansion or "in the name of <insert deity here>", or "sacrifice <blah> to a <tree, dragon, whatever> to bring about <end of world/chaos/whatever>". Carver just wants to conquer the world, and maybe eat a few worthy opponents along the way.

Probably five years ago, I was a master of all things Warmachine/Hordes fluff related, but these days... just can't seem to find the time or desire to read/follow it all. I imagine that the Ceph do all the brain surgery to try and unlock the secrets of the brain to make their psionic powers more powerful so they can dominate the world for... what? That's what I always have to laugh about for some of the factions. They focus on the plan, but what about after? What happens when Orboros finally summons The Great Devour Wyrm? What happens when Everblight gets all the Dragon Shards? What about Cryx? Etc., etc.

Sorry, I got on my there for a second.

Circle arn't trying to summon the Wyrm. They're trying to stop it.
I think you have a strangely distorted view of the fluff.

 Tamwulf wrote:


Lord Carver from what I understand, was kind of a Conan-style figure, until Dr. Arkadius came along and convinced him that he should rule the world through Divine Providence. He somehow convinced Carver that he was royalty and had a divine right to rule. Carver is smart enough to know he is being played, but everything is going the way Arkadius said it would, so...

That's the main reason why the Farrow are one of my favorite factions. No big, grandiose plans to harvest souls to feed to some enigmatic engine of something that will do something else, no Empire Expansion or "in the name of <insert deity here>", or "sacrifice <blah> to a <tree, dragon, whatever> to bring about <end of world/chaos/whatever>". Carver just wants to conquer the world, and maybe eat a few worthy opponents along the way.

So how is that not 'empire expansion', or 'in the name of [carver!]'?

And bear in mind (or should that be boar in mind) his goal is the downfall of human civilisation and cities, and bring about an era where the farrow do what the humans currently do...

Farrow are cool, don't get me wrong (bacon rocks), but your views on the fluff are a bit skewed tam.

It would be hard to use WH models en masse as a counts as listin WMH. Though your best bet wwould probably be a hordeslist.

You could probably use the Circle rules and skaven models. But there would be allot of rebasing and you'd need to play with the right people.

you may be able to use ogre models for a counts as troll army. But there'd be alot more conversion needed.

Both could be cool projects. But itd take time and money so you'd probably want to make sure WMH is your game before doing so.

Deadnight wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:


Lord Carver from what I understand, was kind of a Conan-style figure, until Dr. Arkadius came along and convinced him that he should rule the world through Divine Providence. He somehow convinced Carver that he was royalty and had a divine right to rule. Carver is smart enough to know he is being played, but everything is going the way Arkadius said it would, so...

That's the main reason why the Farrow are one of my favorite factions. No big, grandiose plans to harvest souls to feed to some enigmatic engine of something that will do something else, no Empire Expansion or "in the name of <insert deity here>", or "sacrifice <blah> to a <tree, dragon, whatever> to bring about <end of world/chaos/whatever>". Carver just wants to conquer the world, and maybe eat a few worthy opponents along the way.

So how is that not 'empire expansion', or 'in the name of [carver!]'?

And bear in mind (or should that be boar in mind) his goal is the downfall of human civilisation and cities, and bring about an era where the farrow do what the humans currently do...

Farrow are cool, don't get me wrong (bacon rocks), but your views on the fluff are a bit skewed tam.

I learned a long time ago to never argue about fluff; there is always someone who thinks they know more than you. Carver's motives are simple, and he plans to do it one way: Kill everything/everyone until he is the last Farrow standing. Contrast that with any of the other factions and it seems pretty obvious that the Farrow have a very, very simple backstory that's about as flimsy as tissue paper. I can imagine what it was like sitting around the design table when they made these models:

"So yeah, we have these pig models... and they fire square bullets. What else we got?"
"They taste like bacon?"
"OK, let's run with that. Spells, animus, and how about a special rule that when they die, other pigs eat them and gain health?"
"Awesome! That's great. Hey, what about a backstory?"
Much laughter ensues.
"Just get Doug to write something. And have it incorporate the bacon angle!"

 Tamwulf wrote:
[
I learned a long time ago to never argue about fluff; there is always someone who thinks they know more than you.

To be fair,I wasn't the only one who pointed out the contradictions in some of the things you said. Now, I certainly wasn't 'arguing' with you, Do I 'think' I know more than you? I dunno - but if I am wrong in something, I am glad to be corrected. You were wrong on some of the things you said with regard to the cephalyx(thry don't trade their souls for dark necromantic power), circle (they're not trying to summon the devourer - quite the opposite actually!) and the farrow. And I'm not saying that to score internet points or any of that malarkey. I simply pointed them out as its a feature of the game that I personally quite enjoy.

 Tamwulf wrote:
[
I Kill everything/everyone until he is the last Farrow standing.

Then how is he going to rule a farrow empire if he is the last pig on the pyre?

 Tamwulf wrote:
[
Contrast that with any of the other factions and it seems pretty obvious that the Farrow have a very, very simple backstory that's about as flimsy as tissue paper. I can imagine what it was like sitting around the design table when they made these models:

"So yeah, we have these pig models... and they fire square bullets. What else we got?"
"They taste like bacon?"
"OK, let's run with that. Spells, animus, and how about a special rule that when they die, other pigs eat them and gain health?"
"Awesome! That's great. Hey, what about a backstory?"
Much laughter ensues.
"Just get Doug to write something. And have it incorporate the bacon angle!"

The farrow embody a lot of the traits typically seen in generic fantasy orcs - heck, even down to tolkiens 'pig like' features. It's interesting to me how pp split out a lot of those Orc traits amongst the blighted Nyss, farrow and skorne. The backstory evokes this pig eat pig culture quite nicely - if you're interested, check out the unleashed rpg book - it's quite excellent by the way. well worth a read.

 Tamwulf wrote:

Deadnight wrote:

 Tamwulf wrote:


Lord Carver from what I understand, was kind of a Conan-style figure, until Dr. Arkadius came along and convinced him that he should rule the world through Divine Providence. He somehow convinced Carver that he was royalty and had a divine right to rule. Carver is smart enough to know he is being played, but everything is going the way Arkadius said it would, so...

That's the main reason why the Farrow are one of my favorite factions. No big, grandiose plans to harvest souls to feed to some enigmatic engine of something that will do something else, no Empire Expansion or "in the name of <insert deity here>", or "sacrifice <blah> to a <tree, dragon, whatever> to bring about <end of world/chaos/whatever>". Carver just wants to conquer the world, and maybe eat a few worthy opponents along the way.

So how is that not 'empire expansion', or 'in the name of [carver!]'?

And bear in mind (or should that be boar in mind) his goal is the downfall of human civilisation and cities, and bring about an era where the farrow do what the humans currently do...

Farrow are cool, don't get me wrong (bacon rocks), but your views on the fluff are a bit skewed tam.

I learned a long time ago to never argue about fluff; there is always someone who thinks they know more than you. Carver's motives are simple, and he plans to do it one way: Kill everything/everyone until he is the last Farrow standing. Contrast that with any of the other factions and it seems pretty obvious that the Farrow have a very, very simple backstory that's about as flimsy as tissue paper. I can imagine what it was like sitting around the design table when they made these models:

"So yeah, we have these pig models... and they fire square bullets. What else we got?"
"They taste like bacon?"
"OK, let's run with that. Spells, animus, and how about a special rule that when they die, other pigs eat them and gain health?"
"Awesome! That's great. Hey, what about a backstory?"
Much laughter ensues.
"Just get Doug to write something. And have it incorporate the bacon angle!"

I agree with the other poster, Tamwolf, your 'interpretations' of the fluff are a off, quite a bit in some parts. Wen you say Circle are doing the opposite of what they're trying to do, I must question your knowledge on the subject. And carver doesn't want to be the last pig standing, he wants to be the top pig. And in real life, when a pig dies, the other pigs will eat it....so....maybe PP is just using actual pig stuff for their pigs?

Lord Carver, the Bringer of Most Massive Destruction, is clearly

"Anyway, enough trivia. The new name that Mobutu adopted for himself (Sese Seko...) was typically described in news reports as having the official or usual translation `the all-powerful warrior who, because of his endurance and inflexible will to win, will go from conquest to conquest leaving fire in his wake' (with some variation in tense and hyphenation). In case that looks embellished, I've also encountered `the earthy, the peppery, all-powerful warrior who, by his endurance and will to win, goes from contest to contest leaving fire in his wake.' I should probably leave it at that, except to say that in May 1997, as a rebellion led by Laurent Kabila chased him from power, his own elite guard, left behind, fired on the cargo plane he used to flee the country.

But I just can't leave well enough alone. I'd figure that the official translation, if there really was one, would be into French first. French newspapers, it turns out, generally gave the official translation as `l'homme qui vole de victoire en victoire et ne laisse rien derrière lui.' English of that would have to be close to `the man who flies [or flees] from victory to victory and leaves nothing behind him.' Considering the thorough three-decade-long looting of the country, the ``flees ... and ... leaves nothing behind him'' was not far off the mark. Even the little economic infrastructure left behind by the Belgians was mostly allowed to fall into disrepair, and nationalization of foreign-owned businesses scared away foreign investment (duh). And when he left, of course, it was indeed a great victory -- for his decades-long adversary Laurent-Désiré Kabila. If there is in fact a single word that might be translated both rien (`nothing') and `fire,' it might be ashes."

http://www.plexoft.com/SBF/N04.html#Sese