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I'm starting to build a 30k force and am struggling to see how I should use my primarch, I'll gladly pick up any unit that people recommend using him with? From what I can see, it is very hard to optimise primarchs

He is good in close combat against other Primarchs who currently have rules, only Fulgrim, fully buffed Logar or Horus really give him much trouble 1 on 1. I suspect those who don't have rules who are combat beasts: the lion, the angel and the wolf will be better, while Magnus should be able to buff himself to similar levels as Logar.

Give him a unit of Invictarus Suzerains but make them a troop choice not a retinue so you get the bonus of covering the troop tax in the FOC. I prefer going for Invictarus Suzerains as they come with AP2 axes that auto wound on a 6 and hit at I4. I can give them as many plasma pistols and hammers as I need. Terminators are more durable, I just find them either a little slow in CC or light in AP against better units.

Stick them all in a Spartan, drive at biggest squishy unit, eat it for breakfast. Won't be that much that should give you trouble outside the specialist CC units and those can be softened up with enough bs5 plasma on the way in.

His buff to one unit type of Implacable Advance, Interceptor, or Tank Hunters means you really need to load up on one unit type. Personally I go with multiple units of laser Rapiers and give them tank hunter, but my meta has a mix of light and heavy tanks so I don't need as much armourbane.

His Unyielding Will usually does little against Logar as he is usually used for blessings, however can be worth adding in a librarian for a few extra dice to roll when you do get to counter stuff. 30k is a bit sparse on army lists that do the whole psychic phase, I hope this changes with the arrival of the Wolves and 1000 sons, so a librarian is a bit of a left field choice at present.

Final thing, a super heavy with D weapons is usually going to be better value for your LoW spot than a Primarch. Take Roboute because you like the model or the character, not because he'll win games by himself regardless of the other guys list.

Thanks mate, that's a really in depth answer

 Looky Likey wrote:
He is good in close combat against other Primarchs who currently have rules, only Fulgrim, fully buffed Logar or Horus really give him much trouble 1 on 1. I suspect those who don't have rules who are combat beasts: the lion, the angel and the wolf will be better, while Magnus should be able to buff himself to similar levels as Logar.

Give him a unit of Invictarus Suzerains but make them a troop choice not a retinue so you get the bonus of covering the troop tax in the FOC. I prefer going for Invictarus Suzerains as they come with AP2 axes that auto wound on a 6 and hit at I4. I can give them as many plasma pistols and hammers as I need. Terminators are more durable, I just find them either a little slow in CC or light in AP against better units.

Stick them all in a Spartan, drive at biggest squishy unit, eat it for breakfast. Won't be that much that should give you trouble outside the specialist CC units and those can be softened up with enough bs5 plasma on the way in.

His buff to one unit type of Implacable Advance, Interceptor, or Tank Hunters means you really need to load up on one unit type. Personally I go with multiple units of laser Rapiers and give them tank hunter, but my meta has a mix of light and heavy tanks so I don't need as much armourbane.

His Unyielding Will usually does little against Logar as he is usually used for blessings, however can be worth adding in a librarian for a few extra dice to roll when you do get to counter stuff. 30k is a bit sparse on army lists that do the whole psychic phase, I hope this changes with the arrival of the Wolves and 1000 sons, so a librarian is a bit of a left field choice at present.

Final thing, a super heavy with D weapons is usually going to be better value for your LoW spot than a Primarch. Take Roboute because you like the model or the character, not because he'll win games by himself regardless of the other guys list.

angron is also better than guilleman 1 on 1 statistically, in a team fight things are much more gry but angron usually comes out on top assuming both start from full health and neither has charge bonus

 Looky Likey wrote:
He is good in close combat against other Primarchs who currently have rules, only Fulgrim, fully buffed Logar or Horus really give him much trouble 1 on 1. I suspect those who don't have rules who are combat beasts: the lion, the angel and the wolf will be better, while Magnus should be able to buff himself to similar levels as Logar.

Give him a unit of Invictarus Suzerains but make them a troop choice not a retinue so you get the bonus of covering the troop tax in the FOC. I prefer going for Invictarus Suzerains as they come with AP2 axes that auto wound on a 6 and hit at I4. I can give them as many plasma pistols and hammers as I need. Terminators are more durable, I just find them either a little slow in CC or light in AP against better units.

Stick them all in a Spartan, drive at biggest squishy unit, eat it for breakfast. Won't be that much that should give you trouble outside the specialist CC units and those can be softened up with enough bs5 plasma on the way in.

His buff to one unit type of Implacable Advance, Interceptor, or Tank Hunters means you really need to load up on one unit type. Personally I go with multiple units of laser Rapiers and give them tank hunter, but my meta has a mix of light and heavy tanks so I don't need as much armourbane.

His Unyielding Will usually does little against Logar as he is usually used for blessings, however can be worth adding in a librarian for a few extra dice to roll when you do get to counter stuff. 30k is a bit sparse on army lists that do the whole psychic phase, I hope this changes with the arrival of the Wolves and 1000 sons, so a librarian is a bit of a left field choice at present.

Final thing, a super heavy with D weapons is usually going to be better value for your LoW spot than a Primarch. Take Roboute because you like the model or the character, not because he'll win games by himself regardless of the other guys list.

Why does everyone forget the Khagan? Jaghatai will be capable of putting in work, I'd bet.

ionusx wrote:angron is also better than guilleman 1 on 1 statistically, in a team fight things are much more gry but angron usually comes out on top assuming both start from full health and neither has charge bonus

I normally discount Angron because that 3+ save means he is going to have lost a wound or two getting into combat. I really hate that he has a 3+ as it brings him in range of being shot off the table too quickly.

TranSpyre wrote:
Why does everyone forget the Khagan? Jaghatai will be capable of putting in work, I'd bet.

Its his special power according to the HH books but the serious answer is that GW and FW never give the WS enough attention. I would hope he is similar to Fulgrim.

Guilliman can also absorb alot of Ap1/2 thanks to his re-roll first invuln of the phase rule. Also, I'm pretty sure he has a very long winded rule to do with Land Raiders, funnily enough. I can't read it though because it's wording sucks.

The rule you are talking about allows Guilliman to give one unit type (say, sicarans) a special rule (Tank hunters, implacable advance, or I think furious charge).

What they were trying to clarify in the book was if you gave Land Raider Battle Squadrons Implacable advance, it would not also apply to any Land Raiders taken as dedicated transports.

Locally, a buddy of mine uses him by putting him in a land raider (or spartan if he had the cash) with suzerians. Though, with 30k, I'd hardly worry about "Optimization" as there isn't much to really Optimize against. Most 30k players seem to be more into fielding fluff lists, so unless your local meta is really min-maxed, just build what looks cool, and you will probably do well either way