Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have a few friends of my wife and I who rave about Bolt Action, but who have always lived too far away to game with. More recently though a few local clubs have been increasing their player bases, and I know Bolt Action is starting to take hold.

Giving the game a quick look I find myself interested. I always loved 40k, and it was my main war-gaming love affair for ten years, but I just can't bring myself to play very often anymore between gross imbalances, Codex creep, formation shenanigans, etc...

I digress. Bolt Action sounds great, but it seems like there are a LOT of books and supplements. I assume the nation books are the equivalent of Codexes, so no concern there, but then I see tanks have their own book, etc... I take it that means the rules, or rather unit options are spread between quite a lot of places?

Also, I tend to learn games best seeing them played. Are there any good Bolt Action Bat-Reps that play out the full games without major edits (IE only chiming in between turns...)?

Thanks.

Hey!

The only rules you need for Bolt Action are the rulebook, plus the appropriate Armies Of... book.

The "Tank War" book is just rules for playing tank platoon campaigns, so your crew get experience, tank only scenarios, tank platoon commanders and vehicle radio networks - all optional rules, etc. It's unnecessary for normal Bolt Action. Then there's the theatre books like Germany Strikes and Empires in Flames, which focus on the history of specific campaigns/theatres, with variant platoon lists, historical scenario battles, etc. While they are very cool, they are also not necessary to play.

edit- and also a copy of the FAQ/errata


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit 2 - actually http://www.boltaction.com/ is a pretty good resource to browse the game as a newbie!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, if you just want to get started with you and a friend, the Bolt Action starter set "D-Day Firefight" is an excellent place to start. It comes with the rulebook, 20 US Infantry, a German half-track, and 12 German Grenadiers, along with order dice and a ruined house modular terrain piece, and a "getting started" scenario book. Those forces easily form the basis of a platoon/army for either US or Germans. The rulebook has "starter" army lists for USA and Germany in the back, so you can get playing right away (the full Armies Of... book is a good buy in the future though as it has many more units plus historical theater platoon selectors, while the rulebook just has the "generic reinforced platoon")

And if you find yourself leaning one way or the other, Warlord has a holiday deal right now http://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/deals/products/bolt-action-starter-game-d-day-firefight/
buy the starter set and get a free tank. So if you're leaning US, get a free Sherman, if you're leaning Germany, get a free Panzer IV

Hey Doug! Always appreciate your insights as we seem to have pretty similar tastes. Thanks for the help. As I am sure you can appreciate, KoW has single-handedly eliminated my need for anything mass-battles, but nothing has quite definitively replaced 40k for me at the "individual man/unit" scale.

Can I ask a more naive question? This would be my first historical... How does casual play work around such a game? If I end up with a Polish army, and my wife Japanese, is the game still balanced for forces which never would have met? Do tournaments concern themselves with this, or asymetrical technology from different eras of the war?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Hey Doug! Always appreciate your insights as we seem to have pretty similar tastes. Thanks for the help. As I am sure you can appreciate, KoW has single-handedly eliminated my need for anything mass-battles, but nothing has quite definitively replaced 40k for me at the "individual man/unit" scale.

Can I ask a more naive question? This would be my first historical... How does casual play work around such a game? If I end up with a Polish army, and my wife Japanese, is the game still balanced for forces which never would have met? Do tournaments concern themselves with this, or asymetrical technology from different eras of the war?

haha no problem! and I agree, I use Bolt Action definitely to scatch the "platoon level" itch.

Bolt Action as written by Alessio Cavatore and Rick Priestley is designed for "pick up and play" games, so there is a balancing points system (well, as balanced as arbitrary points systems are wont to be). It definitely works for "let's meet up and play 1000 points" or "time for a 1250 point tournament". So, for instance, a Panther costs like over three times as much as a Polish 7TP light tank. I have definitely beaten a late war German force comprised of veteran Waffen-SS with assault rifles, with my plucky early war Polish army force.

Bolt Action also has the "theatre selectors" that are restrictive in what you can take, if you want to play a historical battle. For instance if you have British and your opponent Germans you could each decide to take your lists from the appropriate Rommel & Monty ~1942 North Africa lists from your respective army books, to play a more historically themed battle. Or, eschew points entirely and replay an actual battle.

So yeah Bolt Action lends itself very well to "pick up and play" as well as setpiece historical matchups.

That's what I was hoping to hear. I know tournaments are becoming a thing around here, and just didn't have the heart to start a new game and immediately find I had the wrong models to play in format "x" or worse, an army which had no chance at the table.

I had enough of that in the aforementioned 40k, thanks. :-p

So, does the current $112 starter set deal give a fair sense of how the game plays? What points would that be, and what is that relative to the point level where "real" games are played?

Also, is that starter all but worthless if you don't intend to play either army in the long run? :-p On the flip-side, is it worth getting two sets if we are?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Hey Doug! Always appreciate your insights as we seem to have pretty similar tastes. Thanks for the help. As I am sure you can appreciate, KoW has single-handedly eliminated my need for anything mass-battles, but nothing has quite definitively replaced 40k for me at the "individual man/unit" scale.

Can I ask a more naive question? This would be my first historical... How does casual play work around such a game? If I end up with a Polish army, and my wife Japanese, is the game still balanced for forces which never would have met? Do tournaments concern themselves with this, or asymetrical technology from different eras of the war?

Here is my 2 Pence, on your questions as a ex 20 yr 40k player and a soon to be long Historical,My wife tease me that iam going to be one of the older guys that has a excessive NAppie Colllection. i been playing ww2 TT for 4 yrs. now and enjoy playingwhat i call Loosly Historical games. Flames and Bolt Action.

Casual play works out great because of the point system.The one thing you will want to do is make sure that you go by the Specific campaign and time Period. EArly war, mid war and late war for your list.As the tech in weapons advance was pretty fast.Example you dont want LW Germans with assault rifle and King tiger going against some Early war Romanians or french for example with their low tech.
As for tournaments i cannot answer that because i am a casual GAmer. Not a turny guy.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
That's what I was hoping to hear. I know tournaments are becoming a thing around here, and just didn't have the heart to start a new game and immediately find I had the wrong models to play in format "x" or worse, an army which had no chance at the table.

I had enough of that in the aforementioned 40k, thanks. :-p

So, does the current $112 starter set deal give a fair sense of how the game plays? What points would that be, and what is that relative to the point level where "real" games are played?

Also, is that starter all but worthless if you don't intend to play either army in the long run? :-p On the flip-side, is it worth getting two sets if we are?

There are a couple bits that competitive players have managed to exploit as the game is getting close to 4 years old now, but anyone running a tournament will use the "recommended" comps. But like I said, it's a good system for "close enough" that the few tournaments I've run in my area have had some pretty different armies win them!

Well, let me think.

If you aren't interested in playing either of the armies in the starter set, then no. Assuming we're still going with the "you and a friend" route, your best bet is to take that money and instead buy the hardcover rulebook and two infantry boxes. All the common infantry are available in plastic, the "less popular" stuff is in metal (like, say, Italian Paracadutisti). You would still need to get two sets of order dice.

If you ARE interested in the two armies in the starter set, then, yes, they both form a great core for a larger force. With the 20 US you can easily make an LT & aide, Sniper team, Bazooka team , and two 7-man squads - probably 350 ish points, so over a third of the way to a standard 1000 points platoon. The 12 Germans could give you an LT & aide and two five-man squads w/ some MG's and/or AR's, plus the Halftrack, puts you around 250-300 points. A Sherman is ~200 pts (w/ extra MG) and a Panzer IV ~235 points, with the Panzer IV having a much better gun but the Sherman being cheaper but festooned with machine guns.

TWO starter sets would give you the ability to get a free Sherman AND a free Panzer IV, plus the 40 US Infantry, and 24 German Infantry w/ 2 half tracks... so yes, you'd have a US reinforced Infantry platoon w/ a Sherman, and a German Panzergrenadier platoon with half tracks and a Panzer IV, a pile of order dice and a bunch of ruined farmhouses for terrain. You'd definitely have some close-to-if-not-already 1000 point armies (USA: Lt & Aide, Sniper team, Bazooka team, Air observer team, Medic team, three ten-man squads w/ a BAR, Sherman; Germany: Panzer IV, two half-tracks, LT, Sniper team, three 7-man veteran squads w/ MG42's and AR's and Panzerfausts) About the only thing I'd add would be some support options - a mortar and a machine gun team for each side. I'm gonna whip up two army lists real quick from two starter sets...

Thanks Doug. I'm actually very tempted to double up on the starter at this price. The wife and I would both play, presumably, so as with any game, ready access to two armies massively increases the odds of us actually playing any new system.

Yup, okay just worked out two quick lists - looks like with two D-Day Firefight sets plus a free tank for each, you can easily reach 800+ points per side.

a quick German list, from two sets (24 plastic Grenadiers, two plastic Half-tracks, and one free Panzer IV). Late war veteran Grenadier list.

LT & Aide;
sniper team;
four 5-man Grenadier squads, NCO w/ SMG, some Assault rifles, a panzerfaust, and an MG42
two Sd.Kfz 251/1 Half-tracks w/ front and rear facing MG42;
onePanzer IV H w/ Schurzen
800+ points, 9 order dice

and the US infantry platoon:

Lt & Aide;
Medic & Aide;
forward air observer & aide;
sniper team;
bazooka team;
three ten-man squads w/ Nco has SMG and two men have BARs;
one Sherman M4 w/ extra machine gun

is right over 800 points too, 9 order dice.

The great thing is, each set gives you 5 of each color order dice, so with two sets, you have 10 green and 10 grey order dice. Each of the above armies is 9 dice and plays quite differently... so if you wanted to add a unit onto each, you still have an extra order dice to do so without having to buy more order dice.

Well, knowing very little about force-organization, or rules at all (beyond watching Beasts of War w/Alessio playing a full demo game), I would guess that all sounds great. :-)

As always, its tricky pulling the trigger on $250 worth of stuff... but knowing that 2016 will see the end of my KoW investing (having fully playable 2000-3000pts of damn near every army we would want to use), I am kind of free in where my future hobby dollars go.

Any other insights into how the game plays, etc?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Well, knowing very little about force-organization, or rules at all (beyond watching Beasts of War w/Alessio playing a full demo game), I would guess that all sounds great. :-)

As always, its tricky pulling the trigger on $250 worth of stuff... but knowing that 2016 will see the end of my KoW investing (having fully playable 2000-3000pts of damn near every army we would want to use), I am kind of free in where my future hobby dollars go.

Any other insights into how the game plays, etc?

technically $224, w/ free shipping

Sure, here's the rundown of mechanics.

Each unit has an order die - all order dice in your army are one color (different than your opponent's). They all go into a big bag, and during the turn, you draw one at a time. If it's your color order die, you assign it to a unit that has not activated yet, and you give it an order. Six orders: Fire, Advance, Run, Ambush, Rally, Down. Fire = shoot at full effect, Run = move w/ no shooting, Advance = move less and shoot w/ less effect, Ambush = don't move but interrupt opponent move and Fire at full effect, Rally = try to remove pinning, Down = go down (harder to hit). Normally a unit will automatically do it's order. However, if the unit is pinned, they have to take a test, that gets worse for each pin they have on them. The more pinning, the harder it is to get them to do an order. Failing an order test gives them the Down order automatically. Passing an order test removes a pin in addition to then performing the order given. Rally removes lots of pins. So heavily pinned units prefer to stay Down because there's incoming fire keeping them from doing anything. Your morale is based on your troop's level (inexperienced, regular, veteran) and can be buffed by having officers nearby issuing orders.

Stats are simple because people are people. Everyone needs a 3+ to hit, with modifiers for: point blank range, long range, Advancing fire, cover, small team. Each pin you have is also a modifier, because your unit's fire is less effective when some units are ducking for cover. If you get any hits, the target you shot at gets a pin marker. Then you roll to kill. Instead of 40k "toughness", there's a sliding scale - 3+ to kill an inexperienced guy who doesn't know what he's doing, 4+ on regular, 5+ on veteran because they know how to take cover and when to keep their head down etc. then 6+ for soft skin vehicles, 7+ for light armor, etc, all the way up to super heavy tanks. Heavy weapons give you a bonus to your die roll to damage things. So rifles can't damage an armored vehicle, but a 37mm antitank gun has +4 on it's die roll. Some HE weapons cause multiple hits and pins, like mortars or artillery.

Assaulting is deadly - though if you charge an enemy on Ambush or an enemy who has not yet activated, they can open fire and cut you down. So it's best to charge people who have already activated - ie, those who are distracted. Combat is brutal, every model gets an attack, except for models with assault weapons like SMG's and assault rifles, or tough fighters, get two attacks. (it's a close quarters firefight more than punching). You simply roll all your dice to damage, it is assumed you "hit" automatically - whoever kills the most people wins the combat and the other unit surrenders/is defeated. Very simple brutal assaults.

Then there's rules for off board artillery and air strikes, buildings, tanks, towing artillery peices, transports, etc.

What sets armies apart are their army special rules. For instance, US Army units can Advance and fire with no penalty when using M1 Garands and BARs. Germans get extra dice on their MG's. French get free artillery. stuff like that.

All in all Bolt Action is pretty simple, allowing you more freedom to play the game than remember special rules!

Chiming in as a newbie in regards to Bolt Action:

The rules remind me of a more streamlined version of Necromunda (which is a good thing).
It is like a very clean running 40k around 3rd edition I would guess.

I like the activation: a random squad at a time.
Entire armies going at a time seemed imbalanced, so every turn is a bit of a nail-biter hoping the squad in less than an ideal situation is able to go again before being under fire.
The rules for "pins" on getting them and getting rid of them make sense for morale.

I have been putting models together for over 30 years and I can say the fits seems quite good, especially with the vehicles.
Just pay really close attention to what arms attach with what gun and you will be ok.
The pieces are just big enough to be OK, any smaller could get challenging so I like the scale of them.
I would suggest fitting some weights inside the vehicles to have them sit better and not be prone to being shifted.

I like the game, the scale is nice and there is no shortage of material for getting a themed game in.
Two starter boxes and then 1 army deal for each army is a fairly self-contained kit for two people to get a few good games in.

 judgedoug wrote:
Hey!

The only rules you need for Bolt Action are the rulebook, plus the appropriate Armies Of... book.

The "Tank War" book is just rules for playing tank platoon campaigns, so your crew get experience, tank only scenarios, tank platoon commanders and vehicle radio networks - all optional rules, etc. It's unnecessary for normal Bolt Action. Then there's the theatre books like Germany Strikes and Empires in Flames, which focus on the history of specific campaigns/theatres, with variant platoon lists, historical scenario battles, etc. While they are very cool, they are also not necessary to play.

edit- and also a copy of the FAQ/errata


Automatically Appended Next Post:
edit 2 - actually http://www.boltaction.com/ is a pretty good resource to browse the game as a newbie!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Additionally, if you just want to get started with you and a friend, the Bolt Action starter set "D-Day Firefight" is an excellent place to start. It comes with the rulebook, 20 US Infantry, a German half-track, and 12 German Grenadiers, along with order dice and a ruined house modular terrain piece, and a "getting started" scenario book. Those forces easily form the basis of a platoon/army for either US or Germans. The rulebook has "starter" army lists for USA and Germany in the back, so you can get playing right away (the full Armies Of... book is a good buy in the future though as it has many more units plus historical theater platoon selectors, while the rulebook just has the "generic reinforced platoon")

And if you find yourself leaning one way or the other, Warlord has a holiday deal right now http://us-store.warlordgames.com/collections/deals/products/bolt-action-starter-game-d-day-firefight/
buy the starter set and get a free tank. So if you're leaning US, get a free Sherman, if you're leaning Germany, get a free Panzer IV

The main rulebook has lists for German, British, Russian, and US forces. The nation books have some rule tweaks and point changes, but are not strictly necessary to play. Overall the US lists do not vary much. More theatrr selectors and a few additions, but pretty similar.

If you are starting out it means you do not need the nationbooks unless/until you are ready to take a real plunge.

I can't speak for Bolt Action specifically, but Historicals in terms of Ancients has always been very forgiving of non-historical match-ups in competitions. At times you will find armies 4,500 years and 8,000 miles apart fighting each other.

Obviously WW2 is a much more compressed time scale, but if you ignore tanks and aircraft, there's no reason why a German army can't fight a Japanese, or Japanese a Polish one (the Japanese and Soviets had a bust-up in 1939, for example.) The main artillery and infantry weapons didn't change very much.

Thanks everyone. That is all incredibly helpful and does a lot to make me feel much more enthusiastic and much less intimidated.

The notion of a "clean 40k" experience is kind of perfect, and is exactly what I am hungry for.

Any other typical pieces of advice? Things you wish you knew starting out?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
Thanks everyone. That is all incredibly helpful and does a lot to make me feel much more enthusiastic and much less intimidated.

The notion of a "clean 40k" experience is kind of perfect, and is exactly what I am hungry for.

Any other typical pieces of advice? Things you wish you knew starting out?

Well one thing I wish I had would be the new plastic Grenadiers that come in the starter set, back when I started the (now discontinued) German Infantry were a lot fiddlier and kinda squat! haha

Also: kinda forget everything about 40k. It's a d6 based sitting with rolling to hit and stuff, but it really doesn't play like 40k!

One piece of advice that took me a while to become comfortable with - remember, assaults are close range firefights. Many times you might be like ten inches away from an enemy and your first urge is to Fire order shoot them - but the shooting and rolling to kill afterwards will result in less decisive results than if you just Run/assaulted your enemy - which will always result in one side being wiped out. If you assault an enemy that has already activated, you can charge in with no worries, and if they're out in the open, you roll to kill first! - eliminating models that can fight back, usually guaranteeing a win on your end with only a few casualties. and removing an enemy's unit also removes his order die from the bag, so always go for eliminating units so they have less tactical choices (when there's more of your dice in the bag, you'll usually get yours drawn more often than theirs!)

That sounds terrific Doug. I appreciate all the assistance, and the enthusiastic discussion. The flow of play really does sound incredibly appealing.

So what do a lot of "common" lists look like? IE, at standard sizes do you tend to see one tank? Transports? Do players tend to build take-all-comers sorts of lists?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
That sounds terrific Doug. I appreciate all the assistance, and the enthusiastic discussion. The flow of play really does sound incredibly appealing.

So what do a lot of "common" lists look like? IE, at standard sizes do you tend to see one tank? Transports? Do players tend to build take-all-comers sorts of lists?

well, army lists are composed of platoons. There's the "generic platoon" for pick up and play games. Then in the army books there's all the historical theatre selectors as mentioned for setting up a historical matchup. Or for instance the theme of your army. So one of my buddies has a platoon based on his granddad in the Airborne in the battle of the bulge, so he uses that list and has made an army based on his granddad's unit.

Bolt Action is, at it's core, an infantry game, so it's infantry, with supporting assets.

But anyways, the generic platoon has minimums.
Need 1 Lieutenant, either 2nd or 1st. And 2 squads, minimum.
Then optionally, can have 0-3 more squads, other command options (a captain or major, forward observers, medics) and then 0-1 each of various platoon support items like a light/med/hvy mortar, sniper team, machine gun team, bazooka team, flamethrower team, light/med/hvy artillery or antitank gun. 0-1 transport per infantry squad or tow per artillery/antitank gun, 0-1 armored car, 0-1 tank/tank destroyer/self propelled gun.
You can have multiple platoons in an army, which you'll need at higher points. (or one of my French lists is all inexperienced guys and it's so cheap I need to have two full strength platoons for 1000 points!)

But most 1000 ish armies will usually be one platoon with various support assets - that usually means you'll see a bunch of infantry squads and some supporting units. You'll maybe see a tank. Maybe see some half tracks or trucks. (I love trucks!) But most of the time it's infantry. They're the most versatile, they can hold ground and dig in and defend it or reach out and take objectives.

Some people don't like taking tanks, and they'll take a few antitank options. Some people love tanks and might take a self-propelled gun - most tanks though can fire either AP or HE shells so can be useful versus infantry, but can be very vulnerable especially the sides and rear! Depends on the player preference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
The main rulebook has lists for German, British, Russian, and US forces. The nation books have some rule tweaks and point changes, but are not strictly necessary to play. Overall the US lists do not vary much. More theatrr selectors and a few additions, but pretty similar.
If you are starting out it means you do not need the nationbooks unless/until you are ready to take a real plunge.

To clarify, the hardcover rulebook has starter lists for Germany, Britain, Russia, and USA. The softcover mini rulebook included in the D-Day Firefight and Armoured Fury sets only has the starter lists for German and the USA.

Well I cannot say much more than has been said but:

Bolt Action is a game that favours fluffy armies as much as power lists - the balance is very well done and whilst certain units/options are not as optimal as others it is very hard to minmax your army meaning that the dreaded 40K feth train is pretty much none existent.

Antitank choices are a must in games over 750 points. Up to 500 points the most you are likely to see is a Light Tank which, whilst annoying, can be dealt with. Over 500 though things do start heating up.

If you want to start a particular army but have no idea for the theme then the 500 and 1000 point starter bundles are really good and offer a strong and diverse army.

Once you have the basics then purchasing the appropriate 'Armies of' book is a really good idea - they include units and lists for all stages of the war as well as many not seen in the basic rules.

Pistols should only be used for fluffy commanders, the SMG and Rifle are far better choices and you do not pay for your officers weapon.

Try to stick with Regular units initially. Veterans, whilst good, are expensive and a Veteran army will require careful handling a one wrong move can spell disaster owing to there small amount of numbers. Inexperienced units are cheap but you get what you pay for. Once you have experience with the game you can consider armies of these but for now stick to mainly Regular troops and save the Veterans/Inexperienced units for the odd one or too here or there.

I've been playing bolt action for years and never once used a nation supplement. Game works perfectly from the core lists. Also Warlord plastics are the most inexpensive boxes of awesome you can get.

Grab D-Day firefight. Worth every penny.

Played for a while, is 'ok', there are better games out there but Bolt Action is a lot faster to pick up and run with.

Seems to work well as it appears to have been originally framed, infantry skirmishes, maybe 30 or so models with armour being the exception (the vehicle rules are a bit naff, FoW manages vehicles a lot better), also works well when both sides have roughly the same number of units. Scaling the game up and adding lots of support stuff and it just doesn't work for me.

That said as a simple and reasonably face paced skirmish game its not bad with some clever mechanics, just when you find something stretches the mechanics.. just don't go there again.

Absolutely shines at 1000 points as I've mentioned, but have had no problem scaling up to very large battles as well. My multiple-thousand-point Battle of Berlin took about 6 hours and the 12'x6' Battle of Kursk event I ran was done in around 5 hours as well (with dozens and dozens of tanks)

It even works very well scaled down to units that have 1, 2, 3 men. Ran Pegasus Bridge with no squad having more than 4 guys, most were 2 or 3 man, that worked beautifully too.

Everyone from my old club was obsessed with Bolt Action. I'm not much of a fan of WW2 games, preferring Medieval, WW1 and Sci-Fi.



and yet... Bolt Action nearly reeled me in. If I hadn't quit my job to go back to Uni and re-qualify, I'd probably have a German SS group by now.

I say give it a try - maybe get a friend to lend you the books / show you how it's played.

Our friends, a gaming couple themselves, actually just took the choice away from me... by buying us a pair of the D-Day Firefight bundles from Warlord (with one each of the free tanks).

I guess that means we're giving the game a serious try. :-p

This thread is a great read.

leopard wrote:
Seems to work well as it appears to have been originally framed, infantry skirmishes, maybe 30 or so models with armour being the exception (the vehicle rules are a bit naff, FoW manages vehicles a lot better), also works well when both sides have roughly the same number of units. Scaling the game up and adding lots of support stuff and it just doesn't work for me.

I hear what you say about the Bolt Action vehicle rules, but as someone who's considered FoW off and on for a while, I'm not convinced they've got it right. FoW games still look far too much like WH40k, with lines of closely packed vehicles duking it out. WW2 tank combat was rarely like that.

Flames of war TAnk damage just sucks and i have been playing it for 4yrs.
TO non descript
As for the weapons they smoke BA in that department,they are not generic list like bolt action.The art rules are Better.BUt the Firepower cheks suck thuogh,That is one of the main factors why we swiched. we dont care for the infantry being based by the squad.FOW company list are alot better more variety and options also more historical correctness.
Sorry but any TT game that involves tanks and grunts you are going to have the camper and TAnk wall player.but them tactics are forNoobs.I llove playing against them type of players, Easy win for some one who knows strategy.

For us, FoW was never a consideration mostly because we didn't need something at that scale, don't have much of a local community (outside a couple well intentioned, but fairly insular much-older gentlemen), and don't own any terrain for that scale... whereas we love 40k, and want something in roughly the same wheelhouse, but with cleaned up rules.

On paper, BA is perfect, and I am loving a lot of the rules I am discovering. Moment to moment play seems clean, and straight forward, but with tons of strategy, and yet rules for flavor do exist like the FUBAR chart.

So, with those two starter sets and the free tank for each side coming do we already need the army books, or can that wait a bit longer?

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
whereas we love 40k, and want something in roughly the same wheelhouse, but with cleaned up rules.

BA is definitely a much cleaner ruleset than 40k and about the same "scale", was, as of a few editions ago. Reinforced platoons, baby!

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:
So, with those two starter sets and the free tank for each side coming do we already need the army books, or can that wait a bit longer?

Nah you can definitely wait, the softcover rulebook in the D-Day set has the beginner lists for US and Germany and are definitely good enough to get you by.

When you inevitably expand from your starter boxes (best friends ever, btw!), the two army books are good buys as well as the campaign book Battleground Europe as it has lots of fun historical scenarios for the forces you already have.

With the two ruined building kits, if you want to expand into some cheap terrain, the Warlord walls set and Bridge set, combined with the plastic modular river from Pegasus Hobbies and some cheap hedgerows will give you some pretty excellent French country terrain!

We actually own tons of Pegasus Hobbies stuff, so have the modular river, mountains of sandbag walls of all different shapes etc... Those were some of the first terrain we ever owned in this hobby so between those, the typical forest/tree-stands, etc... we're probably pretty set.

And yeah, they're great friends. They've always supported us as hobbyists and were a big part in helping my wife realize this could be a fun couples hobby, and not just something the boys go off and do. :-p

The wife of said couple was actually the one who has been championing BA for as long as we have known them, and she swears its the game 40k used to be for her. I will say, I LOVE the idea of it being infantry first with a scattering of a few "toys" versus the beast 40k has become where the wife and I squeeze super-heavies into every list, etc...

So, the general infantry kit essentially has bits/heads/etc... to represent every human in a given army-list? The sprues will let us make a sniper-team, LTs, flame-thrower team, etc?

 judgedoug wrote:


It even works very well scaled down to units that have 1, 2, 3 men. Ran Pegasus Bridge with no squad having more than 4 guys, most were 2 or 3 man, that worked beautifully too.

I've always wanted to try that. It would be so cool to have a few little teams piling out of a halftrack and heading in several directions.


Edit - would someone also be so kind to share with me perhaps over PM what a Japanese island defense squad looks like? Is it true that the grenade launcher can go into the squad?