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Ultras gained such a stigma that the green marines the new go to? Maybe it's just my group but their is a lot more DA then any other chapter. Maybe it's because they have a decent codex now? Just wanted to see if this is a trend in anyone else's group?

I'd say a lot of the Ultramarine hate has passed since Matt Ward's departure and the release of all the Horus Heresy UM stuff. There's still some residual dislike given that they're still largely the poster boys for UM but I think you shouldn't have to worry about playing an army based around how much it has anyways (except maybe Eldar).

Yea I have a growing ultras force I'm not saying any things wrong with them or DA. DA are just the most popular in my play group I maybe unique in this.just making conversation: D

It probably has to do with the box sets and the easy availability of the models in addition to having a good codex now.

Dark Angels are just one of the easiest chapters to start given they are in the starter set. I've considered starting them for that reason alone, good cheap models.

Ultras just became a hard skill based chapter, so it's less attractive to people looking for easy play.

And dark vengeance made DA economical in comparison.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ultras just became a hard skill based chapter, so it's less attractive to people looking for easy play.

And dark vengeance made DA economical in comparison.

How does "turn up in drop pods and have re-rolls to hit with grav weapons without requireing a psychic test" take skill all of a sudden?

If the OP's meta was only just cottoning on to putting a darkshroud into a ravenwing unit and/or adding SW special characters, then yeah, I can see why DA would have gotten more popular, but I would have guessed it's more that people have wanted to play DA for ages but haven't been able to for ages since they've been terrible.

I imagine much the same will happen if CSM ever get a decent dex again, there will be an explosion of CSM players who've wanted to play [insert powerful legion here] for ages but didn't want to spend a bunch of money to lose 80% of their games before rolling dice.

Two things happening here:

The power of the Ravenwing and Grav weapons.

The Deathwing are pretty meh in general- combination of lackluster Terminators and the lack of assault in this edition. What I mean about lack of assault is the difficulty in getting into assault. There are fewer assaults, but they are more devastating then previous editions.

Greenwing has nothing special about it.

So it's not that the DA are the new Ultramarines, it's that if you want to go bikes, you go Ravenwing. Everything else? Ultramarines.

If the Dark Angels didn't get access to Grav weapons, I'd doubt if we would ever see them on the table.

Decent codex? I guess not. It's a mediocre codex. Nobody plays them here. Just UM or SW.

Probably because dark angels got the new starter set and some great new artwork.

Also i think a great part of it is that SM got so many new flavors of chapter tactics. It's no longer "go ultra" because the color is the only thing that changes. now you need to pick a chapter for the rules as well as the look, so it encourages people to spread the SM love. DA don't have that, so if you like the fluff and rules of DA, you paint green/black/white. Also they get 3 colors instead of the 1 of other chapters.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ultras just became a hard skill based chapter, so it's less attractive to people looking for easy play.

Uuuuuuuh... SMs are only weaker than Eldar, Necrons, and maybe Tau. I'd say they're about on par with the DAs.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Dark Angels are just one of the easiest chapters to start given they are in the starter set. I've considered starting them for that reason alone, good cheap models.

How the hell does DV make it easy to start a Dark Angel army? Deathwing is crap and not really useful at all, so those models are more a waste of point. You only get three bikes and to make them useful you have to take a hacksaw to mono-pose snapfit BS to give them a grav gun or plasma gun. Finally there's the Greenwing, who are a solid "meh" when it comes to armament with the missile launcher. The only special things from the box are the characters, but you wouldn't really want a Librarian on foot unless you're making a greenwing army- otherwise you want to put him on a bike for 1+ toughness and jinking save goodness.

It was easier to start a Dark Angel army when GW was still producing the old Dark Angel battleforce kit that came with a completely squad ready to go.

 Wyzilla wrote:

How the hell does DV make it easy to start a Dark Angel army? Deathwing is crap and not really useful at all, so those models are more a waste of point. You only get three bikes and to make them useful you have to take a hacksaw to mono-pose snapfit BS to give them a grav gun or plasma gun. Finally there's the Greenwing, who are a solid "meh" when it comes to armament with the missile launcher. The only special things from the box are the characters, but you wouldn't really want a Librarian on foot unless you're making a greenwing army- otherwise you want to put him on a bike for 1+ toughness and jinking save goodness.

It was easier to start a Dark Angel army when GW was still producing the old Dark Angel battleforce kit that came with a completely squad ready to go.

It's easy to start because it's a cheap entry into a Dark Angels army. Maybe it's not an optimal start, but so long as you're not playing really cutthroat tournament stuff it's a totally solid entry point for DA. I started my Dark Angels with that, and while I branched off and expanded it to include a lot more stuff, it still forms the core of my army. The only things in that kit I don't get much use out of are the characters, unless I feel like putting a Librarian with a Devastator squad to pump them up.

Also why does anyone say Greenwing? They're not a wing, they're just Dark Angels. I have no idea why that stupid terminology took hold.

 Brother SRM wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

How the hell does DV make it easy to start a Dark Angel army? Deathwing is crap and not really useful at all, so those models are more a waste of point. You only get three bikes and to make them useful you have to take a hacksaw to mono-pose snapfit BS to give them a grav gun or plasma gun. Finally there's the Greenwing, who are a solid "meh" when it comes to armament with the missile launcher. The only special things from the box are the characters, but you wouldn't really want a Librarian on foot unless you're making a greenwing army- otherwise you want to put him on a bike for 1+ toughness and jinking save goodness.

It was easier to start a Dark Angel army when GW was still producing the old Dark Angel battleforce kit that came with a completely squad ready to go.

It's easy to start because it's a cheap entry into a Dark Angels army. Maybe it's not an optimal start, but so long as you're not playing really cutthroat tournament stuff it's a totally solid entry point for DA. I started my Dark Angels with that, and while I branched off and expanded it to include a lot more stuff, it still forms the core of my army. The only things in that kit I don't get much use out of are the characters, unless I feel like putting a Librarian with a Devastator squad to pump them up.

Also why does anyone say Greenwing? They're not a wing, they're just Dark Angels. I have no idea why that stupid terminology took hold.

It's called Greenwing to denote the massed spam of green bodies. Opposed to Deathwing or Ravenwing, Greenwing is the third way to play dark angels outside of First or Second Company.

@wyzilla
You're correct that the loadout isn't spectacular, but the deal for those minis is pretty good and gets you going.
Starting a marine army as a tournament player, you already know what you want to make and choose accordingly.
Starting a marine army as a new player you are more likely going to start with a DV set than make a hardcore list and build to that. Especially since you don't know what a hardcore list is.

 racta wrote:
@wyzilla
You're correct that the loadout isn't spectacular, but the deal for those minis is pretty good and gets you going.
Starting a marine army as a tournament player, you already know what you want to make and choose accordingly.
Starting a marine army as a new player you are more likely going to start with a DV set than make a hardcore list and build to that. Especially since you don't know what a hardcore list is.

Or you just like winning. Although I bought the HH set to start my DA army, mainly because of the models and the fething amazing deal I got on it.

 ChazSexington wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Ultras just became a hard skill based chapter, so it's less attractive to people looking for easy play.

Uuuuuuuh... SMs are only weaker than Eldar, Necrons, and maybe Tau. I'd say they're about on par with the DAs.

Skill based=/=weak.

You just need to male the right decisions on what doctrine to enable when. Using them wrong will net you little to no profit from the tactics compared to other chapters, using them right they can get more raw power out of it than most others.

Good decision making is translated to raw power, ergo skill required. You have to know when to use your powers. Pulling the trigger too early, and you miss the potential, too late and you miss it too,wrong trigger and it's right out.


Like many others, the ability to choose in game translates to skill requirements. (Other example, csm oblits. Making good gun decisions they can be murderous anti-everything platforms pumping the right gun for any scenario, wrong target priority will make them overpriced havocs.)

 Tamwulf wrote:
Two things happening here:

The power of the Ravenwing and Grav weapons.

The Deathwing are pretty meh in general- combination of lackluster Terminators and the lack of assault in this edition. What I mean about lack of assault is the difficulty in getting into assault. There are fewer assaults, but they are more devastating then previous editions.

Greenwing has nothing special about it.

So it's not that the DA are the new Ultramarines, it's that if you want to go bikes, you go Ravenwing. Everything else? Ultramarines.

If the Dark Angels didn't get access to Grav weapons, I'd doubt if we would ever see them on the table.

This. So much this. DA only became more popular because Ravenwing are part of DA. Almost none of the DA players at my LGS (except for me and 2 other guys) play anything DA besides Ravenwing.