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We all know that there were some loyalists in amongst the traitor legions, who did not turn even on pain of death. Most were killed on Istvan, but a few survived, i.e. Nathaniel Garro.

But I was wondering if there were any instances in the fluff of the opposite also happening - does anybody know if there were any traitor individuals/factions/warbands in amongst the 'loyal' legions during the Horus Heresy?

(The Fallen Dark Angels do not count)

Yes, many. In fact, as is mentioned in HH4: Conquest, nearly every legion had marines fighting on both sides or even neither side of the Heresy. Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, and White Scars all have listed examples of marines who either joined with Horus, or went off on their own. And I have no doubt at all that this holds true for every other loyalist legion as well. Given the size and the diversity of each legion, it's perfectly reasonable to say that at least a small handful, especially those who were working alongside traitor legions for long periods of time, fought alongside traitors. Now in a legion of 100,000, a small handful could be 200 and they'd basically never be missed.

The reason for this turning are numerous. Marines have a tremendous spectrum of loyalties to manage and each marine values certain loyalties over others. Loyalty to legion, to primarch, to homeworld, to squad, to immediate superior, to the Imperial Truth, to honor, to their own skill and many others. All of these collide and conflict and depending on what a marine values, they may find themselves on the opposite side of their legion.

jareddm wrote:
Yes, many. In fact, as is mentioned in HH4: Conquest, nearly every legion had marines fighting on both sides or even neither side of the Heresy. Iron Hands, Raven Guard, Space Wolves, and White Scars all have listed examples of marines who either joined with Horus, or went off on their own. And I have no doubt at all that this holds true for every other loyalist legion as well. Given the size and the diversity of each legion, it's perfectly reasonable to say that at least a small handful, especially those who were working alongside traitor legions for long periods of time, fought alongside traitors. Now in a legion of 100,000, a small handful could be 200 and they'd basically never be missed.

The reason for this turning are numerous. Marines have a tremendous spectrum of loyalties to manage and each marine values certain loyalties over others. Loyalty to legion, to primarch, to homeworld, to squad, to immediate superior, to the Imperial Truth, to honor, to their own skill and many others. All of these collide and conflict and depending on what a marine values, they may find themselves on the opposite side of their legion.

I had presumed there were Traitors of all Legions, but I only knew of Traitor White Scars. Any details?

Out of game, FW are trying to establish as much precedence for flexibility as possible. The increased legion sizes, the legions themselves having numerous far-flung contingents, the mix of marines from Terra, the homeworld, and neither in each legion, and legions operating alongside each other within expedition fleets all allow for any legion's marine s to find a reason to choose a different side.

As for the examples we do have, there was a Great Company of Space Wolves bearing the Serpents Eye of Horus, who slaughtered millions at Neo Cadiz in 008.M31 as well as Iron Hands who wore a dual Eye of Horus/cog heraldry and who fought at the Siege of Mezoa. There were also Terran Raven Guard who greatly respected Horus above Corax and had begun to join the Word Bearer lodges. While the vast majority of these marines died during the Battle of Gate Forty-Two, there could still be a small smattering of them either amongst the legion or who fled at Istvaan. The FW books make it clear that these are only the most well known cases and they plenty of others existed across all legions, in both directions.

jareddm wrote:
Out of game, FW are trying to establish as much precedence for flexibility as possible. The increased legion sizes, the legions themselves having numerous far-flung contingents, the mix of marines from Terra, the homeworld, and neither in each legion, and legions operating alongside each other within expedition fleets all allow for any legion's marine s to find a reason to choose a different side.

As for the examples we do have, there was a Great Company of Space Wolves bearing the Serpents Eye of Horus, who slaughtered millions at Neo Cadiz in 008.M31 as well as Iron Hands who wore a dual Eye of Horus/cog heraldry and who fought at the Siege of Mezoa. There were also Terran Raven Guard who greatly respected Horus above Corax and had begun to join the Word Bearer lodges. While the vast majority of these marines died during the Battle of Gate Forty-Two, there could still be a small smattering of them either amongst the legion or who fled at Istvaan. The FW books make it clear that these are only the most well known cases and they plenty of others existed across all legions, in both directions.

I thought the RG boys at Gate 42 were pretty much exterminated actually, but I'm presuming this is all in HH4?

Btw, I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested in the specifics

At least one Raven Guard was mentioned as operating alongside a Night Lord contingent, although that might've been a forced conversion.

And yes, the Space Wolves and Iron Hands are distinctly mentioned in HH4, with mention of other, less overt conversions as well. Mentioned in the same block of text is the 34th Millennial of the Emperor's Children, known as the Death Eagles, who stayed loyal and continued to harass traitor forces but seemed to have vanished in the immediate aftermath of the heresy.

Personally, I'm taking the Grey Knights approach to this and assuming all legions had some element either turn against their legion, directly or indirectly, voluntarily, or forced, unless otherwise stated. If a later HH book states, "No Imperial Fist ever truly turned against Rogal Dorn," then sure, I'll change my stance, but for now, I'm fully open to the idea of elements of any legion, traitor or loyalist, fighting on either side.

I play loyalist world eaters under shabon dhar, the angriest albino to ever grace the universe.

I think for me it's easier to see traitors in loyalist legions in the fluff. Hell imperial fists have such a taciturn mentality it borders on sociopathic and the ultramarines kinda went crazy after calth. In addition to the other traitors as mentioned even staunch loyalist legions likely had some traitors. That said, I see it more likely the rouge iron hands type traitor with less about glory to hours and just general down with the imperium.

jareddm wrote:
At least one Raven Guard was mentioned as operating alongside a Night Lord contingent, although that might've been a forced conversion.

Forced or not, he actually made it to the top of the Legion's hierarchy, as he was part of the Kyroptera. I think it's the first time we've seen a former member of another legion make it that far up the ladder.