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This is a work in progress. The aim is to produce a Codex: Thousand Sons with associated Tzeentch Daemons. The aim is to have a functioning Thousand Sons post-heresy (40K) codex

This is not complete. If you have constructive comments please feel free to post. Modifications will be made to this, the first post.


HQ:
A Legion: Thousand Sons primary detachment may contain up to 4 HQ from the following list chosen in any combination – (may contain multiples of: Sorcerer, Dark Apostle, The Changeling, Daemon Prince, The Blue Scribes, Herald of Tzeentch). Your army MUST include either Ahriman or at least one Sorcerer as one of these choices.

Ahriman: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Spell Familiar
- May also generate spells from Divination in addition
- Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)

Sorcerer: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)

Dark Apostle: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)

The Changeling: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

Daemon Prince: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability
- 170pts
- Daemon of Tzeentch

The Blue Scribes: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

Herald of Tzeentch: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability
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Elites

Flamers of Tzeentch: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

Chaos Rubric Terminators: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- 125pts
- May add up to 6 Rubric Terminators 35pts/model
- Terminator Champion is an Aspiring Sorcerer with terminator armour, a force weapon and combi-bolter
- Leadership 10
- Mark of Tzeentch
- All is Dust (Rubric Terminators only)
- Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)

Rubric Dreadnought: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines Helbrute
- 110pts
- removed Crazed rule
- It Will Not Die

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Troops
Thousand Sons: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- 115pts
- Unit Composition 5 Rubric Marines
- May add up to twelve Rubric Marines ….......... 23 pts/model
- May add an Aspiring Sorcerer for 50pts
- Deep Strike
- Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)
- All is Dust (Rubric Marines only)

Chaos Cultists: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Incantation
- Spire Guard Upgrade: One squad of 30 Cultists may be upgraded to Spire Guard for 60pts. They are automatically equipped with Autoguns and carapace armour (+5 armour save)
- Spire Guard have - Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves)
- Spire Guard have Stubborn
- Spire Guard have Incantation

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

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Dedicated Transport
Chaos Rhino: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines

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Fast Attack
Screamers of Tzeentch: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

Chaos Spawn: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- No HQ may join Chaos Spawn Squads
- The Change

Hell Drake: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Autocannon and Baleflamer cause Soulburn

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Heavy
Chaos Land Raider: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Chaos Predator: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines
- Heavy Bolters upgrade includes Soul Burn.......... 30pts

Chaos Vindicator: As per Codex: Chaos Space Marines

Burning Chariot of Tzeentch: As per Codex: Chaos Daemons
- No Daemonic Instability

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Special Rules:

All is Dust:
Roll a D6 each time the model suffers an unsaved Wound, subtracting 1 from the result if the hit that inflicted the Wound had the Instant Death special rule. On a 5+, discount the unsaved Wound – treat it as having been saved.

The Change
Any sorcerer/aspiring sorcerer model who comes within 6 inches of a Chaos Spawn squad must make an unmodified leadership test, on a failed test, the Sorcerer turns into a Chaos Spawn..

Incantation
In the Psychic phase, squads of cultists may perform an incantation. Do this BEFORE other spells are cast. For each squad performing an incantation, roll a D3. Remove this many models from play. This number is equal to the number of additional Warp Charges available this turn on top of any generated normally. Cultist Squads who perform an incantation may not move, shoot or in any other way act for this turn. They may however react if charged and behave normally in close assault.

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Alliances:
Tzeentch Daemonkin Faction have the following levels of alliance with other units from different Factions in the same army:
Battle Brothers: Chaos Daemons, Chaos Space Marines.
Allies of Convenience: Necrons, Orks.
Desperate Allies: Dark Eldar, Tau Empire.
Come the Apocalypse: Armies of the Imperium, Eldar, Harlequins, Tyranids,

Warlord Traits:
When generating his Warlord Traits, a Crimson Slaughter Warlord may either roll on one of the Warlord Traits tables in the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook, or roll on the table below.
D6 Warlord Trait
1 Submit to Destiny
The relentless, inevitable march of the Rubricae unnerves all but that the bravest (or most foolish) of foes
- All enemy models within 12" of the Warlord suffer a -2 Leadership penalty
2 Master of Fate
The Warlord is a champion of Tzeentch, able to divine the threads of destiny and tread accordingly
- Once per turn, your Warlord is able to re-roll one Warp charge die OR re-roll one failed armour save. The warp re-roll may be in addition to rolling a d6 for the Cults of the Thousand Sons ability, but it may not be used on the same die. (re-roll two separate die, not the same die twice)
3 Sands of Time
Sand swirls wildly around the Warlord as his surroundings age rapidly and turn to dust
The Warlord has the Shrouded special rule
4 Change Rules All
In the end, aren't the followers of the Blood God changing valiant warriors into headless corpses? Aren't the worshippers of the Lord of Flies changing strong, healthy bodies into rotting, diseased carcasses? Aren't the disciples of the Dark Prince changing stern, steadfast heroes into slaves to their own senses? Chaos is a struggle to change, you must agree. Change rules all
After successfully casting Boon of Mutation, the Warlord may choose to re-roll Unworthy Offering and Spawnhood results. The second roll must be used.
5 Arch-Sorcerer
Curiosity begets knowledge, knowledge begets curiosity. Only great Tzeentch sates both.
Add +1 to your sorcerers Mastery Level
6 Destiny Calls
If the path to salvation leads through the halls of purgatory, then so be it.
Tzeentch has long observed this Warlord’s thirst for knowldge, and will reward him accordingly when the time is right. When resolving the Dark Apotheosis result on the Mastery of Enumerations table, your Warlord will automatically pass the Leadership test if chosen as the character.

Mastery of Enumerations: COMING SOON
Points Expended / Reward
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9

Cults of the Thousand Sons:
Before a game, choose which cult your Thousand Sons warband belongs to, All Sorcerers and Aspiring Sorcerers may re-roll one failed d6 each time a spell from that school is used.
Cult of the Corvidae Divination
Cult of the Pyrae Pyromancy
Cult of the Pavoni Biomancy
Cult of the Athanaeans Telepathy
Cult of the Raptora Telekinesis


Psychic Discipline: Discipline of Change COMING SOON

Unleashed Evolution: Warp Charge 2, range 12"
The Sorcerer unlocks the unrealised potential within every cell of the victim, flooding them with the power of the warp and causing untold changes to their physiology.
Unleashed Evolution is a Malediction that targets a single enemy (unnamed) independent character within 12". If successfully cast, the character must make a Leadership test, adding +2 to the result. If the Ld test fails, replace their model with a Chaos Spawn model. Roll a D3 and consult the following chart:
1:An open book The Chaos Spawn model is under the control of the player who cast the spell. It may move and attack as normal in the following phase this turn. Remove the model at the end of the opponents next turn.
2:Shattered mind The Chaos Spawn model thrashes about wildly and explodes as the changes upon it's body are too great to sustain. Place a small blast template over the body. All models under it take a Str 5 Ap 3 hit
3:What have they done?!The Chaos Spawn model is under the control of the player who originally owned the independent character. It may move and attack as normal in their turn. Remove the model at the next turn.

Duty in Death Warp Charge 2, range 12"
The sorcerer weaves the Rubric to re-knit the broken armour of their ghostly Brothers, forcing sand to return through the cracks and bullet holes to reanimate once more and answer their call.
Duty in Death is a Conjuration that targets a friendly unit of Rubric Marines or Rubric Terminators within 12". If cast successfully roll a D3 and consult the following Chart
1: Return 1 Rubric Marine to the Squad (This may not exceed the original squad size)
2: Return 2 Rubric Marines to the Squad or 1 Rubric Terminator (This may not exceed the original squad size)
3: Return 3 Rubric Marines to the Squad or 2 Rubric Terminators (This may not exceed the original squad size)

Psychic Assault Warp Charge 2, Range 12"
The Sorcerer leaves his body and tears the enemies soul free of their physical form to fight in the warp.
Psychic Assault is a Witchfire power that targets an enemy independent character. Both players roll a D6 and add +1 to the result for each Mastery Level their character has. The highest score wins the duel, the loser takes one wound for every 2 they lose by (rounding up)
- Example: A Psyker of Mastery Level 3 rolls a 4 for a total of 7, the enemy Psyker of Mastery level 2 rolls a 2 for a total of 4. The difference is 3 and so the enemy takes 2 wounds.

Spontaneous Combustion Warp Charge 1, Range 0: Must be in base-to-base contact with enemy independent character
As a final defiant gesture, the sorcerer grabs the enemy in an embrace, raising their metabolism to physical and psychic extremes. Armour glows and fractures from the immense heat generated, turning the Sorcerer and their enemy to molten slag
Spontaneous Combustion is a focussed Witchfire that targets an enemy independent character in base-to-base contact. Roll a D3, this is how many Str 7 AP3 wounds both characters receive.

Question: Why would Thousand Sons not be troops? Berzerkers in KDK are troops, after all. I'd also question why you would not let Daemons embark on transports. There's no restriction on KDK Daemons from embarking afaik. Not saying it all has to be the same, but there is precedent and it would be silly to straight up exclude a unit from embarking on its own codex's transports (to say nothing of Rhinos not allowing bulky models).

The Change is also just a silly, crippling rule. You shouldn't have to keep parts of your army away from the others. If you insist on keeping it, maybe just make it a leadership check and perils if failed. Perils is a nasty table, and it takes some work to get there to begin with for a reason.

Also why the restriction on joining each other, kdk doesn't have that either.

As has been mentioned, maybe take a *few* more cues from KDK.

Also, I would *maybe* come up with a unique rule like the Blood Tithe table, that separates you from basic Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines.

Maybe a unique Psyker table, or something that gives you a benefit when you manifest a power or helps you manifest powers. Something to represent Tzeentch as a god of Magic.

Actually, a modified Boon table could work, as Tzeentch is also the god of Change.

I'd suggest a "Psyker Manifest Table", kinda like the Blood Tithe Table, that you get points when X happens, but I feel that would be too bland, and I still have a bit of MTG in me when it comes to designing things like that. (I think in "Cycles" and such...)

Walker Boh wrote:
I'd suggest a "Psyker Manifest Table", kinda like the Blood Tithe Table, that you get points when X happens, but I feel that would be too bland, and I still have a bit of MTG in me when it comes to designing things like that. (I think in "Cycles" and such...)

Points for successfully manifesting psyker powers/harnessing warp charges would be interesting, except not all of the army could participate. Maybe one of the bonuses you can cash in for makes all your units ML1 for a game turn for the purposes of more psychic dice.

It's quite....boring. There isn't much flavor to it, not much that makes it a supplement rather than just an alternative list. How about:

-Aspiring Champions can be replaced with Aspiring Sorcerers
-Cultists can channel a ritual, in a turn they do not move or shoot or assault, they generate D3 Warp Charges but also suffer D3 wounds.
-Dark Apostle can be Mastery Level 1 Psykers who have to manifest from Daemonology, but can re-roll the manifesting dice.
-If your army does not include Ahriman, one Sorcerer may be upgraded to a Sorcerer Lord (Mastery Level 4, +1 wound) for 70pts.
-A detachment bonus
-Formations
-Warlord Table.

No offence, but compared to what this could be and what you are comparing it to (Khorne Daemon-Kin) this is only a half finished job.

Please remember, as stated in the first post - this isn't complete and will be updated and changed.

Thanks for the feedback and advice, changes so far:

Change log:
Daemons may use Chaos Space Marine transports.
'The Change' modified to 'Make a leadership test, on a failed test, the Sorcerer turns into a Chaos Spawn. - This is based on the 40K fluff from A Thousand Sons and Prospero Burns
Aspiring Champion in Chaos Space Marine squad changed to Aspiring Sorcerer, price changed accordingly

ADDED:
Alliances
Hatred - Space Wolves to all Thousand Sons and Chaos Space Marine HQs
Warlord Traits
Spire Guard upgrade.


SOON TO BE ADDED
Mastery of the Enumerations (Similar to Blood Tithe) - based on manifestation of spells


Q&A: The thinking behind ideas so far
Thousand Sons are Elites rather than Troops stops them competing for space with the already crowded Troops options
The Thousand Sons are masters of daemons (or believe they are). It feels wrong having non-Thousand Son daemons in charge of Thousand Son marines - which is why I put in the distinction on who can join what squad.

The Alliance table is wrong. Khorne is not Tzeentch's mortal enemy. That would be Nurgle. The Decay is Change's greatest adversary. Khorne and Tzeentch merely dislike each other because of their dispute on the validity of Psykers. However, Slaanesh pisses off Khorne FAR more than Tzeentch and likewise Khorne's brutish behavior is unpleasing to the god of indulgence. Check out the codex books and the Black Crusade, 4th version in the Dark Heresy RPG line.

Ahriman should also not be an option here. Kharn the Betrayer is not an option in Khorne Daemonkin. These two warlords are deemed true Chaos Space Marines and belong in the core books with their close brethren under the watchful eye of Abaddon. KDK and TDK are more like fringe groups and factionless traitors with no legion of their own.

Thousand Sons should also not exist at all. Khorne Berserkers are not Word Bearers yet Thousand Sons are very clearly from the Thousand Sons legion. These are true Chaos Space Marines, not outsiders with power armor. So instead they must be renamed something like Tzeentch Golems and made troops just like the Berserkers are.

Havocs and Terminators need to exist. These actually make sense for Tzeentch to command as he's not a close combat army. I can see a lore reason for excluding Terminators with how the armor is fashioned but you can just have them be mutated Obliterator type troops instead, blessed by Tzeentch. Havocs can fire Warpfire weapons and get almost exclusive access to Heavy Bolters and Autocannons. They're only regular CSMs with more access to heavy stuff, only Khorne would shy away from them since he doesn't like standing still and shooting.

Good catch with the Alliances - have amended.

I'm not trying to copy Khorne Daemonkin, I'm more wanting a Thousand Sons Legion book - Tzeentch Daemonkin was used as part of the title due to the involvement of a lot of Tzeentch daemons. This can be changed if people feel it is misleading and expect a Tzeentch version of the Khorne book

 Wulfmar wrote:

Thousand Sons are Elites rather than Troops stops them competing for space with the already crowded Troops options.

You have 3 Troops choices currently. That's hardly crowded. You know you can take 6 troops in a CAD, right? As it is now, the way you envision it as being a partly Thousand Sons Legion codex, you can't actually run a pure Thousand Sons list, since you would need either cultists or regular Chaos Marines, and all the non-sorcerer marines from the Legion are automatons.

Second adding Terminators and Havocs. Maybe even Obliterators because of all the mutation. Also Forgefiends, Heldrakes, etc. no reason to leave them out, especially since those slots are kind of thin at the moment. Bikers would be a good addition as well, since it opens up the potential for a Sorcerer on a bike with a 2+ jink save for a big ol' biker unit.

I still dislike The Change as a rule. It's fluffy, yea, but it really hinders gameplay when you have to keep parts of your army from ever going near each other. The allies matrix with all the different daemons, while also fluffy, is just confusing and would get weird during a game. As it is, daemons of Tzeentch already come with Hatred (Daemons of Nurgle) anyway. And on the subject of Hatred, you should really change Hatred (Space Wolves) to Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves). Thousand Sons and sorcerers are by no means an assaulty army, and especially against Space Wolves should avoid assault as much as possible, and Preferred Enemy is good for shooting.

I do rather like the Warlord Trait table. All of them seem like something I'd be ok with taking (personally I'd reroll 6, I always do with my KDK since I never really summon princes/BTs anyway, but it's still a good trait). As I mentioned above, getting the Shrouded trait with a bike sorcerer would be pretty great.

Change log:
Hatred - Space Wolves changed to Preferred Enemy (Space Wolves) as it makes more sense rules-wise
Thousand Sons moved to Troops Choice
Chaos Terminators added
Chaos Space Marines removed - rubrics, sorcerers and spire guard only (fluff reasons)
Chaos Dreadnought added
Heldrake added
Allies matrix simplified - all daemons factions are now under 'Chaos Daemons' and Battle Brothers.
Added Cults
Removed restrictions on which HQ may join which units.
Clarified Master of Fate Warlord trait in line with Cults rule
Psychic Discipline started

Changes for tonight made, will continue at a later date

I dig the Unleashed Evolution spell. I didn't notice before, but I also like that Rubric Marines have Deep Strike, that should help with S&P, especially since they are your only power armored troop choice. Aspiring Sorcerer with Terminators is good, too.

Change log:

Added Duty in Death, Spontaneous Combustion and Psychic Assault to Change Discipline.

Added Incantation rule to Cultists.

Isn't Tzeentchs number9? And there are 9 enumerations, so shouldn't the enumerations be 9?

 Formosa wrote:
Isn't Tzeentchs number9? And there are 9 enumerations, so shouldn't the enumerations be 9?

Good point - I hadn't got as far as considering that yet - have updated and modified some of the squad sizes accordingly

Is this Thousand Sons or Tzeentch Daemonkin? IMO they're two different things. :p

Here https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Thousand_Sons is a linked to a fully fleshed out thousand sons codex complete with rules for Magnus the Red, unique phychic powers and more. Hope this helps

 nullBolt wrote:
Is this Thousand Sons or Tzeentch Daemonkin? IMO they're two different things. :p

Originally it was going to be called Tzeentch Daemon kin, but the expectation of others was that I was going to make a Tzeentch version of the Khorne Daemonkin without putting anything different in it or trying new things. To me that's not interesting or particularly creative. So it's turned into a modern Legion codex. The reason for Daemons being included rather than being a pure-marine codex was due to the use of Daemons/Tuteleries in the Black Library books and the change of many Thousand Sons sorcerers into Daemons - represented by the generous Daemonic HQ choices for Sorcerers who have changed and the normal daemons for summoning as tools. For those Sorcerers who maintain control of their bodies and resist the change, we have the CSM Sorcerers and of course the Rubric Marines.

 OnlyWar wrote:
Here https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Codex_-_Thousand_Sons is a linked to a fully fleshed out thousand sons codex complete with rules for Magnus the Red, unique phychic powers and more. Hope this helps

Thanks for the link - I had indeed been using it as a reference. It's been useful. The reason I've not stuck closely to is though (for the reasons above taste-wise on fluff interpretation) is due to the introduction of a lot of new USRs and modifications compared to normal codex models (I'm trying a gentle approach with as few changes as possible - more tweaks). Plus there are some bits in it which make me cringe like the Rubric Raptors. That said, there are some excellent parts in it which I have shamelessly used for inspiration