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Orks and Tyranids rely almost entirely upon cover for protection. Ignores Cover just shuts out those codexes.

Ignores Cover should be toned down to just make a -2 to cover saves instead of negating them completely.

I completely agree with this. Taudar is just too ridiculously broken that there is no possible way I could even imagine having fun playing 40k.

Ignores cover is fine as is. Orks and nids have so many models that it almost doesn't matter. And some army's need the ignores cover to deal with such army's.

1: Title is misleading

2: Ignores cover doesn't need to be removed, Markerlights do. I would argue that certain armies don't have enough Ignores Cover.

Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

Why would synapse give anything close to EW? Thats not even how synapse works fluff wise

HQ Warrior squads? Because that remotely makes sense. Warriors have no synapse in the fluff

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
1: Title is misleading

2: Ignores cover doesn't need to be removed, Markerlights do. I would argue that certain armies don't have enough Ignores Cover.

Yeah, pretty much this. The excuse that "orks have enough bodies to not care" doesn't work when Tau have enough bullets to not care. I'm fine with a handful of things ignoring cover, but when an entire army has it every turn (Markerlights) then yeah, that's a big fething problem.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

Why would synapse give anything close to EW? Thats not even how synapse works fluff wise

HQ Warrior squads? Because that remotely makes sense. Warriors have no synapse in the fluff

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or trying to troll me, so I'm just gonna say that this is exactly how the 4th edition worked, and that was the time that Nids were considered as one of the top-tier armies.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
1: Title is misleading

2: Ignores cover doesn't need to be removed, Markerlights do. I would argue that certain armies don't have enough Ignores Cover.

Actually, as a Tau player (among others), I'd argue that Markerlights should lose the ability to grant Ignores Cover, rather than being deleted outright - the ability to boost Ballistic Skill is still useful. (Though maybe it should be 1 token to re-roll 1s, 2 tokens to re-roll misses hitting on a 4+, 3 tokens to get twin-linked instead?)

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

Why would synapse give anything close to EW? Thats not even how synapse works fluff wise

HQ Warrior squads? Because that remotely makes sense. Warriors have no synapse in the fluff

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or trying to troll me, so I'm just gonna say that this is exactly how the 4th edition worked, and that was the time that Nids were considered as one of the top-tier armies.

The last two things I said don't even match anywhere near the fluff. Its synapse. Every organism is connected to the big one because "it is special." Thats it; they are just under his control. How do you see that as getting EW for your dudes? If my warrior gets shot by a battlecannon and my Tyrant is next to him, the only thing that's happening is:

Tyrant: "Well Jimmy, you just got pasted"

not

Tyrant: "Shrug it off Jimmy, I am right here lending my thinking powers"

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

No, the Exocrine is a better Biovore. Pyrovore is still a hunk of garbage.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

Why would synapse give anything close to EW? Thats not even how synapse works fluff wise

HQ Warrior squads? Because that remotely makes sense. Warriors have no synapse in the fluff

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or trying to troll me, so I'm just gonna say that this is exactly how the 4th edition worked, and that was the time that Nids were considered as one of the top-tier armies.

The last two things I said don't even match anywhere near the fluff. Its synapse. Every organism is connected to the big one because "it is special." Thats it; they are just under his control. How do you see that as getting EW for your dudes? If my warrior gets shot by a battlecannon and my Tyrant is next to him, the only thing that's happening is:

Tyrant: "Well Jimmy, you just got pasted"

not

Tyrant: "Shrug it off Jimmy, I am right here lending my thinking powers"

Your interpritation of the fluff is not the be all end all, nor is should fluff be a major deciding factor in rules. If it was space marine armies would be ten models.

I can just as easily say that synapse granting EW is the hive mind shutting off pain, rerouting blood, and activating backup organs.

I would love for warriors to be more than a tax and actually viable to take in mass.

We decided some time ago to change ignore cover to be a simple modifier but instead of a flat one for everything we use IngoreCover1/2/3/4.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
1: Title is misleading

2: Ignores cover doesn't need to be removed, Markerlights do. I would argue that certain armies don't have enough Ignores Cover.

Markerlights don't even need to be removed. What needs to be removed is the flat "2 Markerlight Counters=Ignores Cover".

When we were getting rumors about the new/updated Tau Codex, I put forward a bunch of ideas that would have removed that easy access to Ignores Cover and instead made incremental reductions in Cover saves through complimentary abilities.

The one I'm particularly fond of?
Markerlights have no "Ignores Cover" or "Reduce Cover by 1 point for each Markerlight Counter expended" ability but rather if a target is fired upon by a Markerlight you reduce their Cover Save by 1 point.
Blacksun Filters reduce a unit's Cover Save by 1 point(might seem like a weird one, but it's implied that Blacksun Filters are multi-spectrum, including IR).

Add in a special rule that Markerlights reduce the Cover Save by an additional point for every turn they remain trained upon the target(to a maximum of -3) and make it so that Pathfinders can keep their Markerlights on a target as long as the target remains stationary and they do as well, you get a bit less of an obnoxious version of Markerlights.

lonestarr777 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

 MechaEmperor7000 wrote:
Nids could have other things to help it, like giving the Carnifex back the stuff that made it awesome in 4th edition, Let warrior squads be taken as HQ choices instead of the overcosted "prime" model, Make SitW not suck, give back how Synapse gave pseudo-Eternal Warrior (not immunity from weapons with the Instant Death Rule, but prevented instant death through double toughness), Warlord Traits that didn't suck half the time, buffing the weaker units with better rules, and do something about that damn pyrovore!

The pyrovore? You have a better pyrovore and its called the Exocrine

Why would synapse give anything close to EW? Thats not even how synapse works fluff wise

HQ Warrior squads? Because that remotely makes sense. Warriors have no synapse in the fluff

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or trying to troll me, so I'm just gonna say that this is exactly how the 4th edition worked, and that was the time that Nids were considered as one of the top-tier armies.

The last two things I said don't even match anywhere near the fluff. Its synapse. Every organism is connected to the big one because "it is special." Thats it; they are just under his control. How do you see that as getting EW for your dudes? If my warrior gets shot by a battlecannon and my Tyrant is next to him, the only thing that's happening is:

Tyrant: "Well Jimmy, you just got pasted"

not

Tyrant: "Shrug it off Jimmy, I am right here lending my thinking powers"

Your interpritation of the fluff is not the be all end all, nor is should fluff be a major deciding factor in rules. If it was space marine armies would be ten models.

I can just as easily say that synapse granting EW is the hive mind shutting off pain, rerouting blood, and activating backup organs.

I would love for warriors to be more than a tax and actually viable to take in mass.

If your warrior gets shot by a battlecannon, it turns into paste. There is no brain to shut off pain, blood to rerout or back up organs. You have an unidentifiable pile of bloody paste

Dman137 wrote:
Ignores cover is fine as is. Orks and nids have so many models that it almost doesn't matter. And some army's need the ignores cover to deal with such army's.

Clearly not enough models to deal with our Eldar overlords. If they had triple the model count, they might not be tabled every game by Eldar.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Even markerlights are fine. The markerlights wouldn't be so bad if the Tau weapon platforms weren't immortal.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:


If your warrior gets shot by a battlecannon, it turns into paste.

Unless it doesn't. Really, though, any Space Marine captain would also turn to paste, except for those super characters who have Eternal Warrior and therefore, somehow, don't get pasted.

Tyranid warriors suffer from T4 being craptastic in apoca40K.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:


If your warrior gets shot by a battlecannon, it turns into paste.

Unless it doesn't. Really, though, any Space Marine captain would also turn to paste, except for those super characters who have Eternal Warrior and therefore, somehow, don't get pasted.

So jimmy the Warrior gets shot by a battle cannon and the shell land five feet from it. Jimmy Warrior loses half his body, but according to what you keep saying about synapse, Jimmy Warrior is all fine and dandy and casually noms that guardsman with half a head

If Jimmy the warrior were T5, this magically wouldn't happen. Like it doesn't for TWC. Because wolves.

Martel732 wrote:
If Jimmy the warrior were T5, this magically wouldn't happen. Like it doesn't for TWC. Because wolves.

Jimmy the warrior would still be wounded. Synapse could grant FnP at half range or so with a certain cap limit (so you can't crowd Carl Carnefexes around Terry Tyrant)

Eternal Warrior is clearly plot armor. Realism is not why we play toy soldiers.

axisofentropy wrote:
Eternal Warrior is clearly plot armor. Realism is not why we play toy soldiers.

I think its more of a "I'm super badass, you can't kill me" thing. If it were plot armour, Cato Sicarius would have it

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Eternal Warrior is clearly plot armor. Realism is not why we play toy soldiers.

I think its more of a "I'm super badass, you can't kill me" thing. If it were plot armour, Cato Sicarius would have it

And it makes zero sense either way for exactly the same reason you described above. Being a hardcore mutha doesn't stop a lascannon shot from completely vaporizing a space marine special character, but somehow it does, because reasons.

Synapse used to be described as letting bigger bugs shrug off otherwise fatal wounds (by psychically willing their bodies to keep moving, they're free to die when the hive mind's work is done). Warriors also used to be lesser synapse nodes, not much to dispute here, it's no big stretch that they could be an HQ choice.

Your knowledge of fluff is shallow and weak, young grasshopper. Reach back further...

Also, Eternal Warrior doesn't mean "you take no damage", it means "you get wounded but don't auto-die". So just like the hypothetical T5 example, you'd still take damage. That ignores armor. Oh, and ignores FNP, too, since EW just means you don't insta-die from the S8 wound, not that the S8 wound doesn't have the Instant Death special rule for doubling your toughness.

As for fluff, maybe what the Synapse web is doing, is telling that warrior/ravener/etc to sidestep just enough to almost - but not quite - get out of the way, or something like that. Think of it like a half-assed version of Forewarning. (50% of the time, that railgun does nothing to that Ratling, because the Ratling wasn't there.)

What does this have to do with ITC?

I think the instadeath rule should be gone and heavy weapons should go back to doing multiple wounds. And get rid of eternal warrior.

Martel732 wrote:
I think the instadeath rule should be gone and heavy weapons should go back to doing multiple wounds. And get rid of eternal warrior.

You know who benefits from that? Tau/Eldar.

"Oh I guess all heavy weapons do d3 wounds now instead of ID... Good thing I can spam them."




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:

axisofentropy wrote:
Eternal Warrior is clearly plot armor. Realism is not why we play toy soldiers.

I think its more of a "I'm super badass, you can't kill me" thing. If it were plot armour, Cato Sicarius would have it

And it makes zero sense either way for exactly the same reason you described above. Being a hardcore mutha doesn't stop a lascannon shot from completely vaporizing a space marine special character, but somehow it does, because reasons.

Synapse used to be described as letting bigger bugs shrug off otherwise fatal wounds (by psychically willing their bodies to keep moving, they're free to die when the hive mind's work is done). Warriors also used to be lesser synapse nodes, not much to dispute here, it's no big stretch that they could be an HQ choice.

Your knowledge of fluff is shallow and weak, young grasshopper. Reach back further...

Well when the character has a storm shield (like Lysander or some mook with the shield eternal) he can deflect LC shots because thats what Storm Shields do.

Also, you say lesser synapse nodes. Key word is lesser. How do 3 Jimmy warriors control the inevitable Gary Gaunt hordes? How do they control Carl Carnefex? Thats what Terry Tyrant is for. Synapse would grant FnP or IWND do the bigger bugs but they are T6 and most ID weapons have a reason for being ID.

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Well when the character has a storm shield (like Lysander or some mook with the shield eternal) he can deflect LC shots because thats what Storm Shields do.

Yea, that's how they have a 3++, the shield deflects it. When that lascannon shot gets through that, and a T4 Marine takes a S9 wound, he should be vaporized. Except he isn't, he just takes 1 wound instead. Because reasons.

 KharnsRightHand wrote:

 Tactical_Spam wrote:
Well when the character has a storm shield (like Lysander or some mook with the shield eternal) he can deflect LC shots because thats what Storm Shields do.

Yea, that's how they have a 3++, the shield deflects it. When that lascannon shot gets through that, and a T4 Marine takes a S9 wound, he should be vaporized. Except he isn't, he just takes 1 wound instead. Because reasons.

No because story elements. Lysander for instance, is wearing terminator armour, has and Iron halo and a storm shield. Fluff wise, that LC shot could deflect from more things than just the shield