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I play STAW, so I have an understanding of the X-wing mechanics. I am contemplating playing both. As an outsider looking in I am curious, why no love for the Outrider I don't see it in many lists and it goes for dirt cheap on eBay and other sites. From what I can see Dash has a good ability and the stats seem solid. I must admit I haven't looked too close at the rest of the cards or the dial. So what's the deal Be nice it's that special time of year

Dunno. I see the outrider a decent amount, at least as much as the Decimator or Falcon. If there's any problem, it would be that Dash, with his low-ish Pilot skill and the donut hole, requires a bit more skill to fly than the Falcon.

Yeah, the Outrider is a strong proposition, it's perhaps not the most widespread ship, but it's not in any way in the doldrums like the Bomber or Scyk could be considered to be.

Dash + Ace of some flavour (Keyn Farlander in this case) did very well at the last tourney (and the only list I'd have to hold my hands up and say kicked my arse outright, my other losses were much closer and could easily have gone my way.)

The Outrider is fine, but the Fat Han is just far stronger for only a few extra points, this is due to

1) Pilot Skill, Dash is 7, meaning to be a true ace you need to use the EPT on VI, Han is already 9 so you can pick a more offensive EPT such as Predator or Lone Wolf

2) Dash's ability is cool but somewhat situational, Han's just thaws out icy dice

3) Outrider only has one crew slot, crew R2-D2 or Gunner is okay but compared to the Falcon combo of R2-D2 / C3-PO it can be a bit of a limiting factor

4) Outrider cannot naturally evade, the Falcon has to take the title to evade but that's one less damage a turn (or two with 3PO hijinx) rather than trusting in the Outriders 2 green dice

5) The 'Donut' hole, ideally Dash takes the HLC with the Outrider title, but the HLC has a minimum range of 2 which means you have to fly with this in mind at all times

This sounds like a bit of hammering of Dash, its not intended that way as it's a fine ship, its just over 5 or more rounds the Falcon is likely easier to fly, especially for us older players whose brains start getting fuzzy after round 3 or 4 ! I'd play Dash at a store or club night as if its only 1 or 2 rounds some trixy flying could result in some Dash-tastic hijinx

All I know is that as soon as the Ghost drops, my 100 point rebel list is going to be a Ghost / Outrider combo! The Ghost will get the lions share of the points of course but there will still be enough points for Mangler or HLC 'turret'

I think there's a lot of love for the Outrider, or at least for Dash. We're not all that far from the days when Dash was one of the dominating elements of the metagame, and he's still a solid choice even if he's not a top-tier tournament winner. If the metagame shifts away from TLT spam and PS 9 aces Dash could easily make a comeback.

 Turnip Jedi wrote:
2) Dash's ability is cool but somewhat situational, Han's just thaws out icy dice

Have to disagree here. Dash's pilot ability is incredibly powerful. It doesn't add raw math, but being able to treat obstacles as open space makes Dash way more maneuverable than any other large-base ship. In my experience with Dash you're using his pilot at least every other turn, if not every turn. When obstacles become open space for you but remain obstacles for your opponent you seek out those parts of the table and use them to keep your opponent from chasing you while you HLC them to death.

3) Outrider only has one crew slot, crew R2-D2 or Gunner is okay but compared to the Falcon combo of R2-D2 / C3-PO it can be a bit of a limiting factor

Err, what? Why are you taking gunner on a ship that can't make primary weapon attacks? Kyle is amazing on a ship that is using PTL every turn, and the new crew character that effectively turns your white maneuvers green is going to be insane with PTL Dash.

Fair point on the gunner, forgot it was primary only, I blame the mince pies

Ok so it looks like the Outrider gets more use than I thought. So it sounds like a good tacticnis to lure folks into a cluster of asteroids and use Dash's ability. I don't understand all the abbreviations, is HLC for Heavy Laser Cannon Also excuse me if I'm a little ignorant on X-wing terms but it looks like the Outrider has a forward arc and a 360 how doesnthat work

Ships are always considered to have a forward arc, which is still used for missiles, torpedoes etc and some upgrades specify that the ship or its target be in or outside of arc.

More specifically, ships with 360 degree fire have permission to fire outside their arc, rather than having an actual 360 arc.

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Ok so it looks like the Outrider gets more use than I thought. So it sounds like a good tacticnis to lure folks into a cluster of asteroids and use Dash's ability. I don't understand all the abbreviations, is HLC for Heavy Laser Cannon Also excuse me if I'm a little ignorant on X-wing terms but it looks like the Outrider has a forward arc and a 360 how doesnthat work

HLC is indeed heavy laser cannon, the Outrider title basically allows the use of a Cannon upgrade in a 360 arc, the drawback of the HLC being it has a minimum range.

In X-Wing a lot of abilities rely on being in a ships primary (front) arc, for examples Missiles can only be fired from the forward arc, whereas a ship with a 360 arc can make primary weapon attacks in any direction

Hope that helps

Ok so that is making more sense to me. Another ignorant question if no one minds. I watched a batrep on YouTube where a guy was using the Outrider, he was doing barrel rolls but he was holding the template long ways instead of the short end Are the rules for big ships doing barrel rolls different

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Ok so that is making more sense to me. Another ignorant question if no one minds. I watched a batrep on YouTube where a guy was using the Outrider, he was doing barrel rolls but he was holding the template long ways instead of the short end Are the rules for big ships doing barrel rolls different

Yes. You hold the long edge of the template against the base of a large ship, instead of the short end. This is a change that was actually introduced for the outrider, when they realized that big ships using standard barrel roll rules was kinda heinous.

As for Dash, you really want to run him with debris clouds, because you can fire while overlapping them. Rocks, in contrast, will still stop you from shooting.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Ok so that is making more sense to me. Another ignorant question if no one minds. I watched a batrep on YouTube where a guy was using the Outrider, he was doing barrel rolls but he was holding the template long ways instead of the short end Are the rules for big ships doing barrel rolls different

Yes. You hold the long edge of the template against the base of a large ship, instead of the short end. This is a change that was actually introduced for the outrider, when they realized that big ships using standard barrel roll rules was kinda heinous.

As for Dash, you really want to run him with debris clouds, because you can fire while overlapping them. Rocks, in contrast, will still stop you from shooting.

Ok that makes sense on the barrel roll. I saw a Borg Tactical Cube do a sensor echo (barrel roll) in a STAW game and it was pretty crazy. In STAW all non mine obstacles are treated the same. Is there a difference between asteroids and debris in X-Wing

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

 Mr. S Baldrick wrote:
Ok so that is making more sense to me. Another ignorant question if no one minds. I watched a batrep on YouTube where a guy was using the Outrider, he was doing barrel rolls but he was holding the template long ways instead of the short end Are the rules for big ships doing barrel rolls different

Yes. You hold the long edge of the template against the base of a large ship, instead of the short end. This is a change that was actually introduced for the outrider, when they realized that big ships using standard barrel roll rules was kinda heinous.

As for Dash, you really want to run him with debris clouds, because you can fire while overlapping them. Rocks, in contrast, will still stop you from shooting.

Ok that makes sense on the barrel roll. I saw a Borg Tactical Cube do a sensor echo (barrel roll) in a STAW game and it was pretty crazy. In STAW all non mine obstacles are treated the same. Is there a difference between asteroids and debris in X-Wing

Yes. Asteroids ("Rocks") deny you your action if you pass over them, deal damage on the roll of a hit or crit, and prevent you from firing if you overlap. Debris stresses you, deals damage on a crit, and you may fire if you overlap a debris cloud in the combat phase.

 Crazy_Carnifex wrote:

Yes. Asteroids ("Rocks") deny you your action if you pass over them, deal damage on the roll of a hit or crit, and prevent you from firing if you overlap. Debris stresses you, deals damage on a crit, and you may fire if you overlap a debris cloud in the combat phase.

Ah, thanks. That clears some things up.