Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

They have a chaos black spray can. I know from personal experience and a lot of forum posts, that just like Abaddon Black pain, Abbadon failed 13 times. Is there any reason as to why GW brought Chaos Black back? Did they (gasp) actually listen to their customers?

Not entirely sure what you're getting at. It's more than likely the same spray, different color/branding.

I believe they just changed from rebranded Krylon primer to rebranded Dupli-Colour primer? Or other way around? Either way, they changed manufacturer at some point.

Its to differentiate between base, layer, spray, etc. Try not to devote too much time to thinking about it.

Rygar91 wrote:
I believe they just changed from rebranded Krylon primer to rebranded Dupli-Colour primer? Or other way around? Either way, they changed manufacturer at some point.

Do your cans say where they were made? My cans say Made in UK, so they wouldn't be Krylon or Dupli-Colour as they are US based.

Also I believe Krylon and Dupli-Colour are made by the same people?

Yes. Both Krylon and Dupli-color are divisions of Sherwin Williams.

I've heard Krylon can be used for priming minis. Can I basecoat my ultramarines blue with Krylon paints/ other spray paints?

You can base coat them with any acrylic spray paint.
However if you wish to use them for tabletop or an activity where you handle them frequently, you want to prime them.

The difference between a primer and a spray paint is how it grips and seals the miniature. A primer "cures" and adheres to the mini, think of it like the tar on the road that sticks the gravel to the surface underneath. It stops the layers of paint from peeling, and offers resistance to chipping from knocks and bumps, by holding onto the paint.

That said: GW sprays are not primers. Nowhere to they claim to be, they work on omission of information. Go ahead, read the website, I'll wait for you.
Also: You can use any acrylic primer. Automobile, hobby, miniature, brush on, they're all acceptable (and cheaper).

Even though GW skull white was never labelled as a primer, I always found it stuck extremely well and gave the ever so slightly rough finish so paints would stick to it well.

The solvents used in the aerosol help in making the paint stick to a plastic model. I'd use GW's old skull white (I don't know if they've changed the formula, it's been a while since I last bought it) over Vallejo's PU primer even though Vallejo's stuff is labelled as a primer.

In general many spray on primers aren't necessarily what you want to prime your miniatures with, you have to just test it on something you don't care about to make sure it has the desired effect.

Many general or automotive primers are designed to show up flaws in the prep work and then be sanded back. The primer I used when repairing a dent on a car is not anything I'd use when priming miniatures.... works great on the car though.

Old habits. Primer being an actual sealant and not just a spray is relevant when dealing with old models, which is why I generally endeavour to make sure it actually is. If you're using plastics, it's marginally less important.
Old metals, especially in Europe were viable to lead rot as we didn't ban lead content.

I've never had issue with car primer on miniatures, and I use generic store brand. I've never used anything else, thinking about it, other than Vallejo multi-use. And that time I used radiator enamel because someone left it on my workstation.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Even though GW skull white was never labelled as a primer, I always found it stuck extremely well and gave the ever so slightly rough finish so paints would stick to it well.

The solvents used in the aerosol help in making the paint stick to a plastic model. I'd use GW's old skull white (I don't know if they've changed the formula, it's been a while since I last bought it) over Vallejo's PU primer even though Vallejo's stuff is labelled as a primer.

In general many spray on primers aren't necessarily what you want to prime your miniatures with, you have to just test it on something you don't care about to make sure it has the desired effect.

Many general or automotive primers are designed to show up flaws in the prep work and then be sanded back. The primer I used when repairing a dent on a car is not anything I'd use when priming miniatures.... works great on the car though.

I'm considering using some blue spray paint instead of Maccragge Blue to basecoat my miniatures. I'm already set to pick up some krylon black for priming. Is this really a good idea or will the blue give me anything strange. Does anyone use krylon for basecoating, not priming?

Chaos Black and Corax White are labeled as 'undercoats'. What's the difference between a primer and an undercoat?

 Bottle wrote:
Chaos Black and Corax White are labeled as 'undercoats'. What's the difference between a primer and an undercoat?

IIRC they are just different words for the same concept.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:

That said: GW sprays are not primers. Nowhere to they claim to be, they work on omission of information. Go ahead, read the website, I'll wait for you.

Chaos Black description from the website:

Description
Citadel Colour spray cans are designed for undercoating metal and plastic models. The purpose of the undercoat is twofold: it acts as a primer and it provides a flat base colour to paint onto. You will find that a spray finish is far flatter and better to paint onto than a brushed undercoat.

This can contains 400ml of black undercoat.

Why say it 'acts as' a primer if it 'is' a primer?

It says it's an undercoat that acts as a primer. If there is a difference between an undercoat and a primer please feel free to enlighten me. This is not something I know much about.

They mean it gives a tooth to the surface, allowing you to paint easily. In this way it "acts" as a primer. However it does not seal or protect the underlying material, as it's simply a slightly rougher acrylic paint.

It's a coy little wording workaround for whatever reason. I wasn't going off the product name, but the function of the paint and contents.

Undercoat is a made up word that really doesn't mean much. It's a cute way of complying with truth in labeling laws while claiming their product does something that it doesn't. Seriously, just buy a real primer (Krylon, Rustoleum etc...) for 1/3 the price of GWs crappy paint and never look back.

I bought some GW spray paint once thinking it would be better than the value-type brands. It was worse.

Never had any problems with Krylon or Rustoleum Primer for priming minis.

 Buttery Commissar wrote:
However it does not seal or protect the underlying material, as it's simply a slightly rougher acrylic paint.

Many primers don't seal or protect the underlying material. Sand a car back to bare metal and then spray it with primer and see how long it lasts (answer: not long).

In fact it's often quite the opposite, primers which are designed to go under tough paints and top coats are in and of themselves not tough, they just fill imperfections and provide a binding layer.

The word "primer" actually covers a massive range of potential applications, etch primers, filling primers, anti-rust primers, binding primers, probably more I'm forgetting. Each category of which has many types (for example to protect a metal you might use an epoxy primer, zinc primer or an oil based primer that displaces moisture, none of which I'd want to use on a plastic model well, maybe etch, as long as the etching solvent isn't so strong it'll damage the plastic).

Just use whatever works, especially when it comes to plastic models. If your "primer" layer sticks well enough and paint in turn sticks to it, that's all it needs to do, doesn't matter if it's got "primer" actually written on the label. You can even get away without a primer on plastic models (washing the parts in warm soapy water and allowing proper cure times goes a long way in and of itself). Some of the most awesome models I've seen didn't use a primer.

If we're talking metal models, it's a bit more finicky because paint tends not to stick to them as well, but even there unless you are buying something that is specifically labelled as an etching primer there's a good chance your "spray primer" isn't going to stick much better than something labelled "spray paint"

SirSertile wrote:
I've heard Krylon can be used for priming minis. Can I basecoat my ultramarines blue with Krylon paints/ other spray paints?

Not only is it a perfectly good option, but you can just go to Home Depot or Walmart or any equivalent store and buy a can of primer for a few dollars in any color you want, rather than spending the absurd amount of money that GW charges. You can even buy premium non-GW brands for a fraction of the price GW charges. If you buy GW spray primers, you're a sucker.

Thanks for the info on 'Primers' and 'Undercoat'.

The GW cans do the job fine in my experience, I use both Corax White and Chaos Black and they work great.

SirSertile wrote:
I know from personal experience and a lot of forum posts, that just like Abaddon Black pain, Abbadon failed 13 times. Is there any reason as to why GW brought Chaos Black back?

No idea what you mean...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I used to use the Citadel primer for years.... the GW store manager sold me on it.. telling me how the primer shrinks into the detail without clogging it up and blah blah blah. I finally got sick of spending ... $15-19 a can and bought a can of Krylon for $3 (with a discount I have). I will never use GW primer again. This stuff coats way better then GW's. I found mysef having to spray a model at least 3-4 times (thin coats) to get a nice even coat. With the Krylon its 2-3 tops (thin coats).