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Hi guys,

I'm just starting my 40K career and I wanted to get some advice on a 1500 army that I want to try and acquire. I had the below in mind. There are a some extra points to play with, but not sure if I'm headed in the right direction, and/or how to finish off the list; weapons/more units/diff units, etc.

(1385pts) ++
Tyrannocyte (75pts) [5x Deathspitters]

+ HQ (520pts) +
Hive Tyrant (260pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Hive Commander (20pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]

Hive Tyrant (260pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Hive Commander (20pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]

+ Troops (395pts) +
Genestealer Brood (80pts)
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]

Termagant Brood for Tervigon (120pts) [30x Fleshborer Termagant (120pts)]

Tervigon (195pts) [Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo]

+ Elites (165pts) +
Hive Guard Brood (110pts)
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]

Hive Guard Brood (55pts)
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]

+ Heavy Support (230pts) +
Trygon Prime (230pts)

It is definitely a diverse collection of units to start bugs with. Also, welcome to the hive mind; tyranids are my absolute favorite army.

My first question: what type of gaming experience are you looking for? Casual and friendly or competitive and optimized? The answer will vary the responses you'll get on your list.

Second question: what are you putting in the tyrannocyte? From first glance it would either be the tervigon or the 2-man hive guard unit. However, with hive commander on both your flyrants, and stealers coming with outflank stock, I'm guessing you'll be outflanking both the tervigon and the obligatory tax unit.

Third question: if you don't plan on putting the hive guard in the cyte, why not break them up into 3 individual units? You have an extra elite slot as it stands now, so no point in not playing 3x1 instead of 1x1 and 2x1.

I also see why you're playing the prime. He can deepstrike and help with downfield synapse while your flyrants are off doing what they do. With an outflanking momma and a deepstriking prime, you can have some fairly durable synapse. However, I'd recommend a few more hard targets to send with them as they'll be quickly focused down if they're arriving with only a few hive guard, a unit of termagants and a min sized unit of stealers.

If you can provide a little more info on what type of list you'd like to play, what your play style is like or why you chose the units you did, some more constructive feedback can be put together.

Thanks for the reply Brakkus40.

First Question:
I got into the hobby because the painting appeals to me. That said, I am a highly competitive person, so if and when I start competing I'd like to have a reasonable chance of not being completely annihilated.

Second Question:
I had thought about Hive Guards, but I am not even familiar with the rules yet so I don't understand your point about the outflanking.

Third Question:
Good point on HG.

So...
-1 Tyrannocyte,
+5 Geanestealers,
+X something else? Warriors?

To answer the question of what I'd like to play. That is slightly different answer. The two ideas that appeal to me (from a "fun to play" and not necessarily a "good to play" standpoint) are an assault army with some kind of abuse of the pinning ability, or some type of skyblight swarm.

does that help?

Whatever the reason for getting into the hobby, welcome. I got into this game because I love the models. Opposite of you, I hate painting lol. I got into the hobby for the modeling and converting options open to me.

Since you're still unsure of the specifics of how outflank works, why did you take hive commander on both of your hive tyrants? Nids is an army where you want to take a unit or upgrade for a specific reason, and generally, more guys is better than a couple upgrades unless those upgrades exponentially benefit your army.

As far as having a "fun to play" over "good to play", that's perfectly fine. Just don't expect shining results when you run up against an opponent that brings a "good to play" against your "fun to play" list. With regard to playing an assault army that abuses pinning, that's a tough mechanic to base an army around. Reason being, most units you try to pin will either be immune (marines, the most common type of army have ATSKNF) or won't fail the pinning test. Most units being LD9 or LD10 are tough to pin.

Assault armies, while they can work, are harder to play than shooty armies because the rules right now favor shooting. Nids, while not terrible in close combat, can struggle in assault due to our stark lack of assault grenades so a clever opponent will force you to clip terrain and be reduced to initiative 1. If you want to run a ground based assault army, I'd definitely look at some sort of screen unit - I prefer gargoyles. A malanthrope or two would also be invaluable to you in building an army of that type. Truth be told, malanthropes are pretty dang sweet in most tyranid armies.

Hope this helps and gives you a little insight into bugs. Also keep in mind that the way I like to play will be different from the way you like to play which will be different from the next person. With getting into this hobby, always make sure you do what you like and don't let anyone tell you different. If you do what you like and build an army and play in a way that makes you happy, you're much less likely to get frustrated or burned out and stick with it. Read what you can on here and other sites to get more ideas and information into bugs (as they're not an easy army to play) and keep asking questions, playing and learning more about what you like and don't like!

Thanks for all the advice, I'm hearing that as I suspected, assault is a bad idea

What are the "competitive" archetypes I could look into for nids, or is that not a simple question?

I just came into a large Tyranid army for quite cheap, and it includes 4 Biovores, 4 Zoanthropes, and 3 Carnifex. Do these have any viability in a semi-competitive list. OP might want to consider them if so.

Competitive nids can be difficult to define. There have been vastly different lists that have won events or done well in different environments, but generally you want to start with 2-3 flyrants. Troops are generally deep striking rippers or mucolid spores and then you fill out from there.

Personally, I usually run a barbed hierodule with a nearby malanthrope for protection. Barby is a lot of points, but I've had great luck with it.

@retrogamer: biovores can be very good. I've had great experience with them in the past, especially as part of the living artillery node. Zoeys can be decent as synapse points and as WC contributors but their usefulness is dependent upon the abilities they roll. Carnifex can be great and, again, I've had good luck with them dropping in cytes.

Try different things and proxy if you can before committing to pulling the trigger on anything.

radrichard wrote:
Thanks for all the advice, I'm hearing that as I suspected, assault is a bad idea

What are the "competitive" archetypes I could look into for nids, or is that not a simple question?

Well...the rules hate assault, so currently, it is not the best plan possable.

The current opinion is that Winged Tyrants with Electro grubs are "must take". I generally only take Hive Commander if I run a Tervigon (with a Thorax hive) so one HC is "enough" for your one Tervigon.

The "Elite" slots are very important for competitive play, and the Heavy slot is one of our only real bright spots, as most everything there is decent, or better.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

radrichard wrote:
Hi guys,

I'm just starting my 40K career and I wanted to get some advice on a 1500 army that I want to try and acquire. I had the below in mind. There are a some extra points to play with, but not sure if I'm headed in the right direction, and/or how to finish off the list; weapons/more units/diff units, etc.

(1385pts) ++
Tyrannocyte (75pts) [5x Deathspitters]

+ HQ (520pts) +
Hive Tyrant (260pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Hive Commander (20pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]

Hive Tyrant (260pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Hive Commander (20pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]

+ Troops (395pts) +
Genestealer Brood (80pts)
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]
····Genestealer (16pts) [Adrenal Glands (2pts)]

Termagant Brood for Tervigon (120pts) [30x Fleshborer Termagant (120pts)]

Tervigon (195pts) [Scything Talons, Stinger Salvo]

+ Elites (165pts) +
Hive Guard Brood (110pts)
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]

Hive Guard Brood (55pts)
····Hive Guard (55pts) [Impaler Cannon]

+ Heavy Support (230pts) +
Trygon Prime (230pts)

Looking at this list there seems to be places to "trim"...

I suggest turning your Prime into a Mawloc, losing one Hive Commander, and the Pod...that should save 185 points...? Then trim one Hive Guard, and you'd have 240 points to spend. I suggest a Brood of Zoeys for some durable Synapse, and a Veno Brood for Shrouding...or a Malanthrope does both jobs for a very good price.

A very differant way to spend 240 would be a second Mawloc, and two Lictors. This can be very strong, but would be very hard to play. So adding Synapse is the better play...

Those are just two examples, several others are possable, including running Leviathan, and adding a third Winged Tyrant.

Thanks for all the great feedback guys, what about the below: (1495pts)

Summary:
Stealers infiltrate with outflanked Venomthropes, and Mawloc on T2,
Tyrants and Guards do their thing,
Terms defend and capture objectives.

+ HQ (500pts) +
Hive Tyrant (260pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Hive Commander (20pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]
Hive Tyrant (240pts) [Electroshock Grubs (10pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Twin-linked Devourer with Brainleech Worms (15pts), Wings (35pts)]

+ Troops (460pts) +
5x Genestealer (14pts)
Broodlord (75pts) [Adrenal Glands (15pts)
30x Fleshborer Termagant (120pts)
Tervigon (195pts)

+ Elites (395pts) +
2x Hive Guard (55pts)
3x Venomthrope (135pts)
3x Zoanthrope (150pts)

+ Heavy Support (140pts) +
Mawloc (140pts)

Looks more streamlined, but you can't outflank venomthropes. Hive commander only allows you to outflank a troops choice and, as stated earlier by Pinecone77, I'd target the tervigon. If going that route, try and put egrubs on her for some nice throax template goodness.

If running stealers, I've found that one brood will get leveled very quickly so I would either get more units of them MSU style for grabbing objectives across the board, or drop them completely. If you drop the stealers that frees up 145 points and you can get another mawloc. While I haven't had good luck with mawlocs personally, those that have swear by more than one. I'd also maybe drop one venomthrope and 1 zoanthrope and then possibly get a screening unit of 15 gargoyles or so. Put them out front and all your units behind have a 3+ cover from the venomthrope spore cloud buff.

Again, these are just my ideas and possible ways to go with the list and some food for thought. Hope this helps and happy hunting

Right, so if I remove the genestealers that leaves 35 points and the need for an additional troops unit. I was thinking 2 units of 1x Mucolid Spore Cluster. What do you think?

If you remove the genestealers as you have them listed, you actually would have 145 points. You also still have the required 2 troops for a CAD with the tervigon and obligatory termagants. I'd maybe look at adding another mawlock at that point, as others have said that 2 is better than 1 and redundancy never hurts.