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Ok so I'm a noob, just learning how to play...but everywhere I see online people are discussing the harsh nerds on DE. No Haywires on Wyches seems to be the focal point.

But...not a week before I bought a ton of stuff, including a ten man wych squad, a couple of Kabbalite Warrior squads, Scourges, three Raiders and two Venoms. So....did I blow it here, or can I get a decent list out of this and be competitive? I know it depends on the meta (which I don't know yet), but was DE a wise decision?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Well, DE is a nice army to play. But it's not really a beginner army since it's not forgiving like Marines.
DE can be fast and deadly. Use it to your advantage. Your current army is a decent start.

When it goes right, they can be devastating.

They just are not the easy mode marines who are far more forgiving of bad placement or such.

It depends: are you going to play competitive or friendly? Because if you're gonna play competitively then you're screwed. And that's why you here a load of moaning about them. If you're just playing a group of friends, or just playing games for the sake of playing, then you're good to go. Though a word of warning: they're super hard to play. You're gonna lose, and probably get tabled, the first few times you play. And the times after that( mebbe not so much when you're against another noob). But eventually you will get good with DE. You'll understand them. And then you will start to win. And believe me, those victories are so much more satisfying than destroying people with necrons or tau.

Ok cool.

I mean, yeah, I'd like to play competitively after a while, but for now it'll just be games at my FLGS. It was just funny how I got these guys and then bam, the new codex comes out. Literally all I read is "Wyches are trash now" and "Not competitive at all without Craftworlders." And I seriously don't think highly of allied armies at all. I don't think I'll ever want to toss some Biel-Tan in with me, because I hate Eldar. Bunch of space pussies. No offense, Eldar players.

But thanks guys, appreciate it.

Judging by your post count here which does not reflect your real life experiences in the game, i think you made a bad choice starting wh40k as DE because they are a finesse army.

They are like the spear or rapier compared to the great axe and zweihander of marines.

(the eldar are katana zealots, orks are like clubs n mauls)

rest assured you can resell at a loss on ebay.

If nothing else, Dark Eldar LOOK really cool and unique. I know that is the GW sale line, that the models make it worth it, but if they suck in play, the army looking cool when you lose doesn't help.

Now, with that out of the way, Dark Eldar are Eldar on Hard Mode. If you can work with that, I don't think you made a mistake. They can still pull of some cool stuff.

If nothing else, you can field them using the Craftworlds codex, but I generally don't think Counts-As is a winning strategy in any case.

You'll never be competitive, but at least you can actually play the game. People will be more than happy to play you because it means easy wins the majority of the time.

If you had a competitive army like Tau or Eldar people would just avoid playing you altogether. Then you've wasted your fething money...and the better part of a decade.

 Filch wrote:
Judging by your post count here which does not reflect your real life experiences in the game, i think you made a bad choice starting wh40k as DE because they are a finesse army.

They are like the spear or rapier compared to the great axe and zweihander of marines.

(the eldar are katana zealots, orks are like clubs n mauls)

rest assured you can resell at a loss on ebay.

Well no, I have very little experience in the game. I flirted for awhile with constructing an IG list, but decided against it and fell out of even thinking about this game for...I dunno...three years or so.

And no, I won't sell at a loss on ebay. Thanks however for the feedback.

Dark Eldar are a very pretty, well sculpted army. Their current codex lacks a lot of the background (fluff)and the special named characters (powers and abilities for army building) compared to the previous codex. That's the biggest complaint for those (myself included). As a new player that's a pretty meaningless comparison though so don't worry about it.

I'd keep the Dark Eldar and ally in normal Eldar / Harlequins when you come across models and abilities you like. When you start getting used to how to use them, you can make more competitive choices. There is nothing to say you can't paint the Eldar allies as Dark Eldar too and just call them Dark Eldar as well.

It's in a disastrous state right now. Go to the Dark City and look up the custom codex they're making there. See if you can convince your small group to let you use it.

Visually and from a pure collecting perspective they're great models. I have a small collection going on myself, but don't field it. I play my main (Tau).

Try to look at it from an optimistic view.
You army will be one of the first ones receiving an update.
While it isn't what is used to be. The army is still quite potent, just not all of their builds.
Don't expect to win tournaments the first few time you play with them. They will certainly be good enough for casual play and eventually you might actually find some devastating tactics with them.
In general Dark eldar can be a bit harder to play. There are some unit combinations that you should probably not use at all and there are no real easy win buttons the top tier armies have. You might want to read up on some tactics and battle reports before you buy more models. A good dark eldar army does need to have a plan that is a bit more complex then just field big things that move up, shoot and jump back.
Note dark eldar have some of the nastiest tricks in the book if you ally in some specific eldar units, such as horrible effective ld reduction and deepstrike shenanigans.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gamgee wrote:
It's in a disastrous state right now. Go to the Dark City and look up the custom codex they're making there. See if you can convince your small group to let you use it.

Don't build your army based on community / fan codexes. You will be stuck with an army that you can only play with players who agree on this instead of being able to play at every store or event you wish to play.

 oldzoggy wrote:
Try to look at it from an optimistic view.
You army will be one of the first ones receiving an update.
While it isn't what is used to be. The army is still quite potent, just not all of their builds.
Don't expect to win tournaments the first few time you play with them. They will certainly be good enough for casual play and eventually you might actually find some devastating tactics with them.
In general Dark eldar can be a bit harder to play. There are some unit combinations that you should probably not use at all and there are no real easy win buttons the top tier armies have. You might want to read up on some tactics and battle reports before you buy more models. A good dark eldar army does need to have a plan that is a bit more complex then just field big things that move up, shoot and jump back.
Note dark eldar have some of the nastiest tricks in the book if you ally in some specific eldar units, such as horrible effective ld reduction and deepstrike shenanigans.

He is right about these things. DE is an amazing army to see well played. For fun lists (that do require allies) look up Freakshow Dark Eldar Lists.
Have fun with your twisted dark elves!

People rag on Dark Eldar because they're not Eldar/Necron/Tau/Space Marines. Next to those 4 armies, every other army pales in comparison in 'competitive' terms too. I wouldn't sweat it so much - those 4 codex's have plenty of bs in them, and everyone knows that. The problem doesn't lie with Dark Eldar, it lies with the stupid power creep of those 4 armies.

Maybe try to line up some games against an Ork or Tyranid or Guard or Chaos player while you're learning the game.

You can win games with any army. Some, (DE/CSM) will be defiantly be an uphill battle, but with solid tactics youll have fun.

You won't win every battle, but the ones you do win will be memorable.

IGLannister wrote:
Ok so I'm a noob, just learning how to play...but everywhere I see online people are discussing the harsh nerds on DE. No Haywires on Wyches seems to be the focal point.

But...not a week before I bought a ton of stuff, including a ten man wych squad, a couple of Kabbalite Warrior squads, Scourges, three Raiders and two Venoms. So....did I blow it here, or can I get a decent list out of this and be competitive? I know it depends on the meta (which I don't know yet), but was DE a wise decision?

Thanks in advance for any feedback.

Dark Eldar are fine but the Wych's have a REALLY specific use and its not as an assault unit so much as it is a stalling tactic. So I mean... I do just fine with Dark Eldar. I tend to use the more exotic units though. So in my case, Wych's dont fit all that well. Wych's form good speed bumps for elites. Charging an elite unit with a few, barely surviving, dying on the enemies turn in time to set the elite up for annihilation is the usage for Wych's. As such, bare bones and small in number, like 6, might be appropriate. And thats assuming you REALLY want them in your force.

Dark Eldar as a codex is actually just fine. I win a lot with them. But again, it bears mention that I tend to use the more exotic units and am highly aggressive with them.

Here is my most recent NORMAL Dark Eldar list. I have really begun playing a lot more Haemonculous Coven BUT this was the last version I used before that switch.

240pts Court of the Archon (6 Sslyth, 3 Medusae, 1 Ur-Ghul)

75pts Raider (Night Shield, Enhanced Aethersails)

265pts BeastMasters (3 Beast Masters with Agonizers, 4 Clawed Fiends, 2 Razorwing Flocks)

190pts 4 Grotesques (Liquifier Gun, Aberration w Agonizer)

75pts Raider (Night Shield, Enhanced Aethersails)

125pts 10 Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Cannon, Shredder, Sybarite w Phantasm Grenade Launcher)

75pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails, Splinter Wracks)

125pts 10 Kabalite Warriors (Splinter Cannon, Shredder, Sybarite w Phantasm Grenade Launcher)

75pts Raider (Enhanced Aethersails, Splinter Wracks)

130pts 5 Kabalite Trueborn (4 Blasters, Dracon w/ Haywire Grenade)

65pts Venom (Additional Splinter Cannon)

135pts Archon (Huskblade, Armor of Misery, Shadowfield, Plasma Grenades, Haywire Grenade)

140pts Urien Rakarth (Casket of Flensing, Ichor Gauntlet+Close Combat Weapon, Clone Field)

140pts Razorwing Jetfighter (4 Monoscythe Missiles, 2 Dark Lances)

120pts 5 Scourges (4 x Haywire Blasters)

Points: 1985
Kill Points: 15
Models: 60

What's the benefit to not having Ravagers in your list, Jan?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
What's the benefit to not having Ravagers in your list, Jan?

I accomplish their job through quick strike melee. By doing it that way, I am better off when the Ravagers would be less useful. No worse off when i would need them.

The Court of the Archon, the BeastMasters, and the Grotesques all double as anti-armor measures, to go along with the more obvious Trueborn and Scourges. All the melee units are fast enough to get to their designated targets turn 1. The Raiders then weather the storm, some dying (3+ Jinks are pretty cool but ultimately wont save all the Raiders).

The Saturation is fairly pronounced. Round 2 is a blood bath.

Certain forces have units we are ill equipped to deal with. There are times when more overt anti-armor would be useful but in practice what happens is that if the enemy is especially threatened by the Ravagers existence, they torrent them down. I can afford to have a Raider torrented down with little or no effect on my anti-tank ability. I cannot afford to have a Ravager torrented down that im counting on for anti-armor, thus losing my anti-tank ability against an opponent who...again... would be threatened by such a thing.

You didn't make a mistake. Dark Eldar are NOT a competitive army, but they can be fun to play in a more casual setting. They're just a difficult army to learn, as they require a fair bit of finesse to pull off properly, but a skilled DE general is a fairly terrifying foe to face. I just started them as well.

DE are just fine, however they are not at the current tournament competitive standard. Local tournaments? Should still have a good time.

One thing is that I would figureout if they are the army you want to play and go from there.

Personally I was a fan of the coven lists, and would check them out going forward. Don't hesitate to convert. Organs and the like make great grotesques. Have fun with them.

Yes. Coven is excellent. I am really enjoying them.

Here is the Coven list I just used a few days ago:

Corpsethief Claw Formation (Fearless, Feel No Pain, Scout, Freakish Spectacle, Let the Harvest Begin)

650pts 5 Talos (5 x TL Haywire Blasters)

Grotesquerie Formation (Freakish Spectacle, Latest Experiments table*)

140pts Urien Rakarth (Casket of Flensing is 12" range. 2D6 STR 3 AP 3 shots. Ichor Injector+CCW, Clone Field 4+ invul, FnP 4+, It Will Not Die, Father of Pain 12" radius)

205pts 4 Grotesques (2x Liquifiers, Abberation w/ Agonizer. All have FnP and Rampage)
80pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Night Shield)

240pts 5 Grotesques (2 x Liquifiers, Abberation w/ Agonizer. All have FnP and Rampage)
80pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Night Shield)

Covenite Fleshcorps Formation(Freakish Spectacle, Master of Flesh 12" on the Haemonculus for his Wracks)

135pts Haemonculus (HexRifle, Scissorhands, Orbs of Despair, Crucible of Malediction)

100pts 7 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
80pts Raider (Night Shield, Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

80pts 5 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
65pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

80pts 5 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
65pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

*Latest Experiments Table:
1 +1 Strength
2 +1 Toughness
3 Fleet
4 Shred
5 Rage
6 FnP 4+

Haemonculus Warlord Traits (if applicable):
1 Talos and Cronos within 12" of him can re-roll 1's on Feel no Pain.
2 Warlord and his Grotesque unit get It Will Not Die
3 Add or Subtract one from reserve rolls
4 Gain D3 Victory Points if he's slain with AP 1, 2 or Instant Death weapons.
5 Warlord and his Wrack unit have FnP 4+
6 Warlord gets Preferred Enemy

Power From Pain Chart:
1: Nothing 2: Fearless 3: Fear, Fearless Turn 4: Fear, Fearless, It Will Not Die 5: Fear, It Will Not Die, Zealot 6+: Eternal Warrior, Fear, It Will Not Die, Zealot

 Jancoran wrote:
Yes. Coven is excellent. I am really enjoying them.

Here is the Coven list I just used a few days ago:

Corpsethief Claw Formation (Fearless, Feel No Pain, Scout, Freakish Spectacle, Let the Harvest Begin)

650pts 5 Talos (5 x TL Haywire Blasters)

Grotesquerie Formation (Freakish Spectacle, Latest Experiments table*)

140pts Urien Rakarth (Casket of Flensing is 12" range. 2D6 STR 3 AP 3 shots. Ichor Injector+CCW, Clone Field 4+ invul, FnP 4+, It Will Not Die, Father of Pain 12" radius)

205pts 4 Grotesques (2x Liquifiers, Abberation w/ Agonizer. All have FnP and Rampage)
80pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Night Shield)

240pts 5 Grotesques (2 x Liquifiers, Abberation w/ Agonizer. All have FnP and Rampage)
80pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails, Night Shield)

Covenite Fleshcorps Formation(Freakish Spectacle, Master of Flesh 12" on the Haemonculus for his Wracks)

135pts Haemonculus (HexRifle, Scissorhands, Orbs of Despair, Crucible of Malediction)

100pts 7 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
80pts Raider (Night Shield, Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

80pts 5 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
65pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

80pts 5 Wracks (Hexrifle, Abberation w Scissorhands)
65pts Raider (Dark Lance, Enhanced Aethersails)

*Latest Experiments Table:
1 +1 Strength
2 +1 Toughness
3 Fleet
4 Shred
5 Rage
6 FnP 4+

Haemonculus Warlord Traits (if applicable):
1 Talos and Cronos within 12" of him can re-roll 1's on Feel no Pain.
2 Warlord and his Grotesque unit get It Will Not Die
3 Add or Subtract one from reserve rolls
4 Gain D3 Victory Points if he's slain with AP 1, 2 or Instant Death weapons.
5 Warlord and his Wrack unit have FnP 4+
6 Warlord gets Preferred Enemy

Power From Pain Chart:
1: Nothing 2: Fearless 3: Fear, Fearless Turn 4: Fear, Fearless, It Will Not Die 5: Fear, It Will Not Die, Zealot 6+: Eternal Warrior, Fear, It Will Not Die, Zealot

I have no idea what most of that gak means, little kid. But you reached out....touched a brother heart...

So I'm gonna google it all.

Do it. Let it begin. LET IT BEGIN!

Oh no, He's going to google it. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE JANCORAN?

I've won several rtt tourneys and placed in top 3 in even more.

Take. In units of haywire scourge, min troops in venous, lhamean hq in venoms, razorwings, ravagers and you'll be in solid shape.

Take the real space raider detachments for having 6 fast attack choices.

Deploy out of enemy fire, and keep yourself within range. Remember dark Eldar is all about positioning, they're truly a movement based army

 War Kitten wrote:
Oh no, He's going to google it. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE JANCORAN?

At least he didn't say he was 4CHAN'ing it. So there is redemption potential.

 Jancoran wrote:

 War Kitten wrote:
Oh no, He's going to google it. WHAT HAVE YOU DONE JANCORAN?

At least he didn't say he was 4CHAN'ing it. So there is redemption potential.

This is true.

You're basically jumping down the double diamond slope, but Dark Eldar are not exactly unplayable either. Just know that if you don't know the strength and weaknesses of every army as well as hug cover like a frightened boy to his mama's legs, you'll be in for a baaad time.

IGLannister wrote:
Ok cool.

I mean, yeah, I'd like to play competitively after a while, but for now it'll just be games at my FLGS. It was just funny how I got these guys and then bam, the new codex comes out. Literally all I read is "Wyches are trash now" and "Not competitive at all without Craftworlders." And I seriously don't think highly of allied armies at all. I don't think I'll ever want to toss some Biel-Tan in with me, because I hate Eldar. Bunch of space pussies. No offense, Eldar players.

But thanks guys, appreciate it.

Lol, What?

Your playing Dark ELDAR...your playing the space pussies evil twin brother...who is also a space pussy!

 Mindstrike1 wrote:

IGLannister wrote:
Ok cool.

I mean, yeah, I'd like to play competitively after a while, but for now it'll just be games at my FLGS. It was just funny how I got these guys and then bam, the new codex comes out. Literally all I read is "Wyches are trash now" and "Not competitive at all without Craftworlders." And I seriously don't think highly of allied armies at all. I don't think I'll ever want to toss some Biel-Tan in with me, because I hate Eldar. Bunch of space pussies. No offense, Eldar players.

But thanks guys, appreciate it.

Lol, What?

Your playing Dark ELDAR...your playing the space pussies evil twin brother...who is also a space pussy!

Well yeah but come on, there's space pussies and then SPACE PUSSIES.

One spends their time torturing all the slaves they capture, and the other spends their time walking paths to become perfect at stuff. Like basket weaving or cooking.